Where did I say that we FSed Evo because they refused to speak to us on a civil level?

I said we FSed evo because of all the PR smearing. The fact that Evo and LaF never talk is an independant issue which I did not attach to the jusficiation for war in my posts.

Being the 90% isn't bad at all, many people got united because they are the 99% :p

No slagpit your right,

we should obviously believe your story rather than what half of the server is well aware of (and would have logs to substanciate).

Half of the server obviously has better reasons to fabricate stories on this issue than you do. Why didn't I see it before...

I posted evidence about a cheater/suicider from a certain alliance.
I got banned for 4-5 weeks for that.

anoniem: let it go already...
actually I shouldn't single out anoniem here: really a lot of you should let it go already.

Personally I don't give two fluffs about stuff from prior resets. When I played I probably gave one fluff.. now it's more like negative fluffs.

grudge holding is fun!

LAF should have a civil war.

ok, sorry, martian.

Step 1 accomplished

rofl you have no idea anoniem.

if you thought that was why we FSed you guys, then you really have no clue.

there's been many alliances who also beat us in TNW and/or ANW. take example Omega during the ECM war. and yet I would consider Omega to be one of LaF's best allies and friends. do you know why? because they talk to me regularly, we communicate effectively and openly without any malice towards each other, and we don't drag each other's names in the mud on AT.

h4 is completely spot on in his post, and as long as you continue to refuse to acknowledge this fact when it's painfully obvious to everyone else not in LaF or Evo (aka third parties) that this nonstop PR smear campaign by Evo heads like yourself against LaF isn't the biggest reason why LaF/Evo relations are the way it is, then i don't know what else to say.

if you acted like qzjul or diez, then i can almost guarantee you none of what happened would've happened. you need to think long and hard what being the Head FA officer of an alliance means and the effect of your posts on AT and how it could be interpreted as.

i already addressed all these issues privately with KJ as part of the peace negotiations, and he understood and we worked out a lot of differences... so i really don't see the point of you doing this fluff anoniem other than if you really genuinely want to go back to square one again... you can only repeat the same smear campaign a few times before people get pissed off.. this isn't just for LaF but i'm sure almost every other alliance out there would feel the same way

if i was a Evo head/leader, for the sake of Evo's goals I would instruct a strict AT ban on people who can't resist the urge to piss off other alliances so I can let my alliance do what it likes (netgaining and going for the ANW/TNW titles). i fail to see how finding reasons to publicly insult other alliances on AT helps this goal

i bet an apology for taking EVOs hard earned triple crown from them by droping 10% of your membership at the end of the set would go a long way in working things out. no?

thats what started this whole mess is it not?

---------------------------------------------------------
Everything you add to the truth subtracts from the truth.
---------------------------------------------------------

At least I stick to the same line. The reasoning for any of LaF'S actions change each time you or any of your members post.

Here's an idea. When you decide to lie - forward the memo to the rest, so at least you're on the same page.

Clearly, you are the one without a clue. Maybe you should take more time reading my posts, so that you can digest all the information and big words. I see Evo and LaF both had problems with PDM, one alliance solved it with a mutually agreeable pact and the other declared war on PDM. Refer to your archives to see more instances of the like, but don't go to far back - it gets a bit hazy.

If you were an EVO leader - you would have some integrity, and not hide behind excuses and deviations of the truth.


+++
Pain:

I proved the suicider on EVO a few sets ago was a LaF Head. Did they pay reps for that? Apologise? Boot him out?

No, to all of the above. I do wonder why we have these issues with LaF. lawlz

So, I don't think they'll ever apologise for the other stuff ;)

we solved our own issues with PDM fine. you can ask PDM yourself.

again you are spreading your LaF smear campaign without checking any facts.

wow, you really don't get it do you. maybe uppercase will help you out.

LAF MAKE PDM GO BOOM BOOM
LAF MAKE PDM SIGN MULTI SET PACT

LAF MAKE EVO GO BOOM BOOM
LAF MAKE EVO SIGN MULTI SET PACT

I hope that helps Bamm-Bamm.

EVO SAYS fluff ABOUT LAF NONSTOP
LAF MAKES EVO GO BOOM BOOM

look ma, i can uppercase too

and i realize it's not really all of evo. most of you guys are cool. but sometimes it's hard to draw the line where the normal sane evo ends and where anoniem starts in the heat of the moment.

and for that i apologize to every other evo member =/

Lets just kill them again next set if this is their hFA posting like this. Either they reign that genius in or they deserve to die again :)

Not what started it no

Nice to see the same evo leaders never shut up.

i guess when laf try and fs evo next time - you will claim that you weren't paying attention and ssnake is the mastermind?

cool story bro.

LaF aren't a cancer, but yourself, ssnake and h4 certainly are. i also see you've brought back people like TC whom will only improve your reputation =)

sure, i don't mind a disagreement, whereby it's something that you can come to a consensus over. But, you show no remorse for your member's INGAME actions, you deny all accountability and you blatantly lie. sure, people get heated up over a game, but i'm not even mad about what your alliance has done to mine anymore. i'm frustrated that you can't just hold up your hands and say "yeah, that happened - we're sorry for this or that, but we were justified and these are the actual reasons".

we want to FS you right now for you acting like a flufftard

since you are too dense to understand anything, namely how to STFU

just FYI

cool story bro.

what are you gonna do after that? wank into a towel about how much of a gangsta you are in a text based game?

what's your country # anoniem?

RED DEAD REDEMPTION(#773) [EVOkj]

cool,

KR time

http://www.youtube.com/...v=CtwJvgPJ9xw&ob=av2e

n/m

humanitarians block me from attacking your POS country

edit: hmm.. i apologise for my tirade above. i agree there is no point rehashing past events, because i will never get any sort of apology for the actions taken against my alliance.

auf wiedersehen

i apologize for the grief LT has caused you guys also for that reset where he suicided you guys.

LaF does not condone such actions and I apologize if we led you to believe that we did.

let's just put the past behind us.

<3

The world is going to end!!!

meh LT wasn't Laf ;) Don't apologize to him! :'( Killing is much funner

You didn't provide any evidence of cheating. Asking Pang pointed questions and then interpreting his non-answers in such a fanshion that supports your theory does not qualify as evidence of anything.

LaF has already admitted that the suicider you keep on referencing was in fact LT. We admitted this to the admins (in fact we are the ones that brought it to the admins attention in the first place) and it has been publically admitted in the EE IRC room... while you and KJ were both active in the conversation.

What we refuse to accept is the assertions that:
a) it was "cheating" in an extent that disipline from LaF was required.
b) LaF is at fault.

for a): We weren't sure whether this was cheating or not so we asked, the response we got was caviated as "unofficial" but was positive to the belief that he didn't "cheat". Also, he didnt' commit the "cheat" as an active member of LaF (aka he had no country in LaF). Thus we decided it was outside our realm of disipline, and wasn't an infraction of enough severety that official disipline beyond "LT you are an idiot, stop doing fluff like that" was required. We don't disipline people with access to our site that are running their country untagged. We only disipline LaF members for actions with countries that we recognize as being under our umbrella of protection/responsibility (e.g. tagged countries and those that were tagged within the last 72 hours).

as for "b)" LaF was not aware of LT's plan, and as such we did not sanction it. When we did become aware of it (shortly after the fact) we recognized that it was a fluffty thing for him to do and I told slagpit as much when I first informed him of the sitaution.

However, given that we were not aware of it and did not order it, and given it did not occur with a country that was tagged LaF at any point (past, present or future) we don't see how LaF is obligated to take responsibility for the country.

As such we feel Evo's gripe should be with LT, and not LaF. We are not willing to accept responsibility for a country that we never accepted into our tag. LaF protects, and by extension accepts responsibility for, the ingame actions of countries in our tag. If LT were to have run the country untagged all reset and had been farmed regularly, LaF would not have any grounds to claim grievence, or do demand reparations on the countries behalf. The door swings both ways on this stance: We aren't able to protect the country, nor do we accept responsibility for its deeds. It really is as simple as that.

To make a long story short we feel you should be demanding an apology from LT, not LaF.

I don't think you truly understand the implications of what you've just written. i'm not having a go, but this is how i perceive it:

a) You've admitted you knew about LT violating account rules and running suicider(s) on evo
b) you're willing to facilitate suiciders, by allowing them continued access to your website (hence tools), as long as they are not under your umbrella tag
c) this could have ended 3 resets ago, if there wasn't a continued 5-6month denial of LT's actions - from LaF leadership and LT himself.

suiciding is a crappy thing to do, but what really gets me - are the lies and the covering up. when people lie or alter the truth - it tends to make others wary, particularly when it comes to other things that have been said/promised. if you truly don't condone that behaviour, then why the secrecy and the "POST PROOF" goading?

Jesus dude. You have to be an ass in every post. I'll enjoy killing evo again in the near future.

Do you really believe that twisting words into "Laf is facilitating suiciders" is going to convince anyone of your argument?

Point c is just as stupid.

i haven't twisted anything. i stated this is "how i perceive it", because h4 pretty much said as long as the country is not in the LaF tag then LaF are not responsible.

point c is extremely valid, and if you peruse through the previous threads pertaining to evo/laf, then you will see this point backed up on many occasion.

anyway, this is all irrelevant. if you say you don't support LT's actions, then fine. i only wanted an admittance of what he did.

case closed, unless you want to call me an ass or stupid some more?

god

just stfu everyone about this subject

this includes LaFfers too

i really want to move on, and i'm sure everyone else who's been hearing this stupid fluff on AT for the past 6 months wants to also.

i don't care who's right or wrong at this point, it's getting old, stale, and this fluff just needs to stop.

The fact that he wasn't in the tag is only part of the issue.

If for example, LaF had instructed him to play an untagged country and suicide Evo, that is a different matter entirely.

But given that wasn't the case, you are damn right we don't accept responsibility for untagged countries.

However, if you want us to start accepting untagged countries as our responsibility, we can definitely consider that policy. But that would also mean that LaF would be retaling any and all hits made on untagged countries.

Since Evo is posting so much in this thread, how about an arranged war? :)

OK, PDM has no issues with LaF or EVO. Period. Capital PERIOD. Quit trying to drag up ancient history.

PDM's collective memory regarding former enemies is very short, while our collective memory about our friends is very long. Remembering our friends has paid a hell of a lot more dividends than remembering our former enemies. You guys should try it, forgiveness is cathartic.

I think its funny that Pang has become the Jimmy Carter of LaF-EVO relations.

you can quit talking in russian or spanish - we use english and LOLcat on this forum, damnit!

*eats more popcorn*

This kind of threads will make eat my office hours.

That is gold.

Anyway, this whole thing is getting very boring. We need to realise who the REAL enemy is, THE GRINCH WHO STOLE CHRISTMAS!

he's history's greatest monster!

he who is the greatest monster of history needs to put missiles on the main page

http://bash.org/?4281

Pang, you have to put space between Turns (Stored) and Population to make it even.

detmers the one who wanted the laf/pdm pact to be long so it could resolve stuff rather than just putting it on hold for one set

That has paid off enormously for both alliances.

yes it certainly has archaic =)