Alpha Server access gifted for the next 48h

Pain

Member
4849

Jan 17th 2013, 0:09:44

Originally posted by synoder:

oh that was me :) any idea how many cms it took?

well i cheated and used cruise and nukes to soften you up so it only took about 180 chems but i probably used about 1k nukes/cruise.

Your mother is a nice woman

synoder

Member
1664

Jan 17th 2013, 0:14:20

thats not too bad. I made it yesterday and figured someone would try right away so I watched it for a bit but then got bored and forgot about it lol.

Pain

Member
4849

Jan 17th 2013, 0:20:45

i saw it before work this morning but didnt have time to kill it cause it snowed and i had to shovel my car out lol

Your mother is a nice woman

Helmet

Member
1341

Jan 17th 2013, 2:06:17

dang. I missed the fun.

Alin is a cheater.

http://i1090.photobucket.com/...ainoftse/alincheating.png

AzNiZe

Member
358

Jan 17th 2013, 2:08:08

alright who killed me while i took a shjt

snawdog

Member
2413

Jan 17th 2013, 3:34:15

I hate to whine,,really...but where is my 10k spy ops?

ICQ 364553524
msn

Marshal

Member
32,589

Jan 17th 2013, 11:40:19

gone.

Patience: Yep, I'm with ELK and Marshal.

ELKronos: Patty is more hairy.

Gallery: K at least I am to my expectations now.

LadyGrizz boobies is fine

NOW3P: Morwen is a much harsher mistress than boredom....

snawdog

Member
2413

Jan 17th 2013, 21:17:24

going thru the countries and found this:

Cant kill me im too touigh (#335)
(Monarchy)
Rank: 64
Networth: 15,984,340,871,847,880
Land: 157120
Dead

I giggled...

ICQ 364553524
msn

ninomachi

Member
61

Jan 17th 2013, 21:32:38

I am the killer or "Cant kill me im too touigh (#335)" HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Took for freaking ever though and took 2 countries

Marshal

Member
32,589

Jan 17th 2013, 22:15:38

^MULTIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :P

lymz

Member
131

Jan 18th 2013, 6:03:34

How did I end up with negative military units, and negative networth? It shows me as 0 nw on the scores list.

lymz

Member
131

Jan 18th 2013, 6:06:47

For testing and strategy purposes, it's good to try and test the bonuses. Besides everything else is abused through he magic market :-p. The bonuses are much higher, so that's good :-D

Marshal

Member
32,589

Jan 18th 2013, 11:42:54

you went over of some limit.

Xinhuan

Member
3728

Jan 18th 2013, 11:46:16

Originally posted by lymz:

How did I end up with negative military units, and negative networth? It shows me as 0 nw on the scores list.

A 64-bit integer can store a number between -9,223,372,036,854,775,808 to +9,223,372,036,854,775,807 (That is negative "2 to the power of 63" to "positive 2 to the power of 63" minus 1. The minus 1 on the positive range accounts for the fact that 0 is also an integer.

Because of how 2s Complement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two%27s_complement) works, numbers larger than +9,223,372,036,854,775,807 wrap around to -9,223,372,036,854,775,808. That is, adding 1 to the former gets you the latter.

This is also why there used to be 2b limit because a 32-bit integer's range is -2,147,483,648 to +2,147,483,647.

lymz

Member
131

Jan 18th 2013, 21:30:51

Okay, basically I did:
* "Purchased" max units from magic market
* Put them up on public market
* Public Market units got returned
* Total number of units are over the limit, and wrapped around ???

Marshal

Member
32,589

Jan 18th 2013, 21:56:53

yep.

Xinhuan

Member
3728

Jan 19th 2013, 6:00:55

Yes Lymz.

As an example, a 1-byte integer's range is -128 to +127 (that is, 1 byte has 8 bits, which can represent 2^8 = 256 integers, including the integer 0).

If you have 120 units, and 50 more returned from the market, you would now have 170 units, but it wraps around to -86 jets (just deduct 256 from 170). This is called addition overflow.

Overflow can also occur in the negative end (No, it is not called underflow, Underflow is completely different and refers to the loss of precision when you add a large number to a small number and the result is no difference to the large number because the large number doesn't have enough significant digits.)

The checks to prevent this from happening obviously is to check if the 120+50 results in a number that is less than the original amount of 120, but you have to do this for every single thing in the game (every unit, cash amount, pci amount, food amount, tech amount, etc), and the code gets very convoluted quickly.

Edited By: Xinhuan on Jan 19th 2013, 6:04:51
See Original Post

crest23

Member
4666

Jan 19th 2013, 6:20:37

Would using absolute numbers work better?

The Nigerian Nightmare.

Xinhuan

Member
3728

Jan 19th 2013, 6:51:44

What exactly is an absolute number?

All numbers in computers are represented either as an integer (as above), or as a floating point value.

A 4-byte floating point value has about 6 significant digits accuracy, with a mantissa. Example: 1.234567+08 is a floating point number which means 1.234567 * 10^8 or the number 123456700. The "+08" is the mantissa, and the range is -128 to 127 (8 bits) and the 1.234567 is the significand (24 bits).

A 8-byte (64-bit) floating point value however has roughly twice the significant digits (15 digits, 52 bits) and a mantissa of 12 bits. Such a number can represent integers accurate up to about 1,000,000,000,000,000 before losing precision. Performance wise, most modern FPUs can do floating point maths as fast as integer maths, but converting a floating point number into an integer number (usually for display purposes) is very costly in CPU time, but is likely negligible for EE.

Edited By: Xinhuan on Jan 19th 2013, 7:06:58
See Original Post

lueticia

Member
180

Jan 19th 2013, 7:54:09

hmm

lymz

Member
131

Jan 19th 2013, 20:41:56

Hehehe; I can hide out in the 0 NW area and keep pumping up the bonus until I'm ready to come out of "protection" into positive NW. I wonder what happens when I take a turn with all this negative units.

lymz

Member
131

Jan 19th 2013, 20:47:48

Buying more units from the magic market put me back in the positive numbers, hit the upper limit again :-P

lymz

Member
131

Jan 19th 2013, 20:52:11

HAHAHA! I have negative food consumption. I have +bushels from all my military regurgitating and starving!

I also have negative expenses. I'm getting rich from them selling the shirts off their back!

WEEEE!

lymz

Member
131

Jan 19th 2013, 20:54:44

NOOOOOO!

I ran into shortages and all my negative units are gone.... booo :-(

lymz

Member
131

Jan 19th 2013, 21:09:38

I wonder what negative tech will do?

Also, why do I have spy expenses, but I have no spies?

Marshal

Member
32,589

Jan 19th 2013, 21:16:22

you got what you deserved.

Cerberus

Member

EE Patron
3849

Jan 19th 2013, 21:16:45

What the hell is a magic market?

I don't need anger management, people need to stop pissing me off!

Marshal

Member
32,589

Jan 19th 2013, 21:52:01

magic market is alpha speciality where you can buy for example fluffload of turns with 0 bucks.

Requiem

Member

EE Patron
9092

Jan 20th 2013, 0:28:55

u can buy turns!

Marshal

Member
32,589

Jan 20th 2013, 11:35:00

*slaps requiem with large trout*

lymz

Member
131

Jan 23rd 2013, 16:33:06

Some issues with the maximums of some values. On some pages the max is one value; on other pages the max is a different value. I don't know if this will cause issues or hidden bugs/holes or bot, but I'd figure I'd let you know.
* Turns
- Shows "You bought 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 turns" and it displays "Turns: 9.22337203685E+18" however on the main page it shows "Turns: 16777215"
* Money
- Selling on magic market "(Total: $87,012,943,743,912,977,104,896, 6% tax)" 87 sextillion, main and adviser page shows "Money: $9,223,372,036,854,775,808" 9 quintillion.
* Oil
- Like all the other units it's capped at "9,223,372,036,854,775,808 Oil Barrels". However after some action (putting on market?) it was capped at an even 9 quintillion. I'll try to reproduce this, but I'll do it once I'm out of protection.

the -illions I used are short scale :-P

Xinhuan

Member
3728

Jan 23rd 2013, 19:52:55

That's not a big issue lymz. The actual game will never ever reach numbers that big. The differences you see in displayed numbers is due to how the same number is being interpreted differently by different code expecting the number to lie within a smaller and narrower range. (i.e a piece of code might be expecting a 32-bit integer but receives a 64-bit one and overflows, resulting in only displaying the remainder (after wraparound is accounted for))

Early Mehul's 2025 added specific code to stop going above 2b exactly in an attempt not to reach the 2147483647 true limit, the 9 quintillion is the same thing, but the magic market can easily bypass that.

Marshal

Member
32,589

Jan 23rd 2013, 20:19:23

~year long set with express turns might reach limits.

Xinhuan

Member
3728

Jan 24th 2013, 1:34:23

No way Marshal. Take the top Express finish of roughly 40m NW. Multiply the reset length by 75 times (5 days becomes about 365 days long), and you might get a linear growth of 3000m NW.

3b NW is still no where near 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 by about 10 orders of magnitude.

Marshal

Member
32,589

Jan 24th 2013, 12:33:55

not then.

ninomachi

Member
61

Jan 24th 2013, 22:13:55

Marshal I am not a Multi. I just new how to die and recreate in the matter of a few minutes.

with the magic market i was able to get back to where i was in a few turns.