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Pang

Administrator
Game Development
5712

Oct 26th 2011, 0:33:41

Before I dive into this post (which I really don't want to write) I just want to say that I have absolutely no desire to take sides in the ridiculous shenanigans that are going on between folks on opposite sides of the war. Additionally, in case people want to claim otherwise, making the fluff flow in a different direction is not any better for the game than when it flowed the other way. What we need is a different political reality -- I hope this round is a step on the path to this being a server everyone will enjoy more.

Now with that in mind, I think that some of the folks who are overly invested in the politics of hate (on both sides) need to take a step back and remember this is a game. Games are meant to be fun. If taking part in the game, or playing on this server is stressing you or negatively impacting you outside of the game, I hope that you'll make every effort to resolve that. I can't speak for the other guys, but I spend my free time helping to build and maintain this game because I want people to enjoy the Earth style of gaming. If the game is bringing you more grief than joy, that is something that needs to be worked on.

There's been a lot of talk about "alliance X is killing the game", "netters are killing the game", "war alliances are killing the game", etc. The stats actually don't point to that -- user engagement is up, traffic is up, repeat users are up, every metric we track is moving in a positive direction for the game. In terms of this server by itself, the number of countries has continued to climb round after round.

So with that in mind, the focus shouldn't be on blaming people for destroying the game; the focus should be on making the game a better place for new players. I can't speak for everyone, but I feel the atmosphere on these forums has been absolutely toxic for a while now. That's not really inviting to new players. There's political debate, there's political grandstanding and then way beyond either of those, there's what we've had over the last 2 weeks: a contant flow of anger, bitterness and hate.

Things have calmed down a little (perhaps because there's a lot of bans :-/) but I'd like to remind everyone that this is indeed a game and you should treat eachother with at least some residual level of respect in terms of how you act on these forums, IRC and in general. I love that there are passionate players, but I think that passion sometimes stops us from seeing that behind the persona, behind the posting, behind every single player there is a person. Think of it liks playing sports or being a politician -- you can be competitive, you can go at eachother to some degree, but there is a still a level of respect that has to be maintained.

This post, while relevant to everyone, is realistically geared toward a small portion of players. To steal a headline from the news; 1% of the players control something like 75% of all the flaming.

I don't want to keep writing more because I feel this whole issue is a waste of time that can be resolved easily so long as everyone is just a little more civil to each other. This is still going to get a lot of tl;dr's regardless.

Thanks, and I look forward to seeing everyone help create a more positive environment on this server.

PS. I'm aware of the irony of me asking others to take the game less seriously and spend less energy arguing on AT. I've enjoyed PDM a lot because I can just chill with folks who enjoy the game the way I used to when I started playing over a decade ago. I encourage others to bring the same attitude to the game -- a fun way to spend some time and meet interesting people.

PPS. if you are banned from the forums/IRC, yelling at me about it won't help.

Edited By: Pang on Oct 26th 2011, 2:26:20. Reason: grammmmmar
See Original Post
-=Pang=-
Earth Empires Staff
pangaea [at] earthempires [dot] com

Boxcar - Earth Empires Clan & Alliance Hosting
http://www.boxcarhosting.com

archaic

Member
6831

Oct 26th 2011, 0:37:20

tl, dr

j/k, I read it

confirmed by Archaic, official spokesperson of ZEN and Tang

CandyMan: stop doing KR on our originals.

Evolution

Member
669

Oct 26th 2011, 1:18:42

Originally posted by Pang:
This post, while relevant to everyone, is realistically geared toward a small portion of players. To steal a headline from the news; 1% of the players control something like 75% of all the flaming.


Are you saying that this isn't what at is for o.O
Not posting on AT as much because Maki/Steeps gave back some of my forums on GHQ. RIP my decade long blog, my blog even had replies from people who are no longer with us :(.

Jiman

Member
1199

Oct 26th 2011, 1:21:31

mmmm good points.

martian

Game Moderator
Mod Boss
7750

Oct 26th 2011, 1:42:33

I agree 100% with pang's post. Part of the reason why I don't play anymore is that it allows me to do something constructive for the game without worry about serious bias.

As always, I will reply to any/all valid concerns sent to me privately regarding posters on the forums or actions in gamet hat are against the rules. Please keep in mind that certain allogations take considerable time/effort to investigate so don't use the report button as a war/political tactic.
you are all special in the eyes of fluff
(|(|
( ._.) -----)-->
(_(' )(' )

RUN IT IS A KILLER BUNNY!!!

hanlong

Member
2211

Oct 26th 2011, 1:45:03

well said
Don Hanlong
Don of La Famiglia

phx

Member
131

Oct 26th 2011, 2:19:28

pang please have my children!

Magellan

Member
230

Oct 26th 2011, 2:47:55

OMG Pang is reading MD's private forums!

JK

I made a post on our super vet board about this just the other day. I brought some people over from my Warcraft guild to try out the game and they didn't like the whole negativity thing going on with this forums with players and mods and everything so I lost them on Alliance server. I may have got them to stay and play on express but we shall see.

Edited By: Magellan on Oct 26th 2011, 2:56:19
See Original Post

Detmer

Member
4210

Oct 26th 2011, 2:55:27

Confirmed - join PDM!

http://paradigm.boxcarhosting.com

where chill and cool mean similar things!

paladin

Member
544

Oct 26th 2011, 2:57:11

Originally posted by Pang:
PS. I'm aware of the irony of me asking others to take the game less seriously and spend less energy arguing on AT. I've enjoyed PDM a lot because I can just chill with folks who enjoy the game the way I used to when I started playing over a decade ago. I encourage others to bring the same attitude to the game -- a fun way to spend some time and meet interesting people.


PDM = Lazy win.
-Paladin
Paradigm Head of Retirement, Fail, and playing World of Tanks, err, actually I mostly play World of Warships now.

diez

Member
1340

Oct 26th 2011, 2:59:58

Btw, I don't know what exactly happened, but I heard that someone posted slagpit's personal information (fb page, photo) either in here or #earthempires and allegedly mocked it etc.

I know Slagpit never gives out his personal information easily (I never even get to know his real e-mail lol, let alone fb page). So whoever posted it must've put some real effort trying to stalk him.

Did that went unnoticed?

Fooglmog

Member
1149

Oct 26th 2011, 3:02:14

No. That didn't go unnoticed. But, it's not an issue that needs to be revisited publicly.

-Fooglmog
Guy with no clue.

diez

Member
1340

Oct 26th 2011, 3:03:15

Good to hear then. I just wanted some clarification!

Chevs

Member
1747

Oct 26th 2011, 3:08:35

pang smells like poopy underwear

SOF Head Of Poop
2019-04-03 21:40:26 PS the stinky deyicks (#599) Beryl Houston (#360) LaF 30638A (43783A)
En4cer: Chevs... u would have beaten me by more than 100m

hawkeyee

Member
1079

Oct 26th 2011, 3:15:50

He's Canadian! We're so proud of you, Pang.
Minister
The Omega
Omega Retal Policy/Contacts: http://tinyurl.com/owpvakm (Earth Wiki)
Apply: http://tinyurl.com/mydc8by (Boxcar)

Jax

Member
59

Oct 26th 2011, 3:33:07

Thanks for posting this Pang.
skype: midnightpaw
msn:
icq: 92667999

Chadius

Member
377

Oct 26th 2011, 4:01:00

rr

Pang, you da man!
LAF

cypress

Member
1481

Oct 26th 2011, 4:30:09

Name and shame the people that are banned! :P

locket

Member
6176

Oct 26th 2011, 4:48:42

not me :P panf for prime minister!

locket

Member
6176

Oct 26th 2011, 4:48:53

pang

BobbyATA

Member
2367

Oct 26th 2011, 5:03:15

people should just play primary!

bertz

Member
1638

Oct 26th 2011, 7:18:47

Make a wall of shame? We should make a separate flaming Forum :P

En4cer85

Member
411

Oct 26th 2011, 8:32:25

well said mate..

snawdog

Member
2413

Oct 26th 2011, 8:56:41

Originally posted by Pang:


So with that in mind, the focus shouldn't be on blaming people for destroying the game; the focus should be on making the game a better place for new players.


pang,u mentioned focus 2x.
I knew those guys over in FFA was gunna ruin it for everyone.. :)

Nice post..
ICQ 364553524
msn






davidoss

Member
643

Oct 26th 2011, 9:16:13

Well said mate. Although, you must say that the animosity and subtextual (almost) hatred that has been broiling under the surface for some time between the parties involved had caused tensions to reach boiling point. That tension caused a lot of toxicity on this forum (as you rightly pointed out). I guess it's almost akin to some drama serial where there are two sides to every story. To a neutral person who may have been around for quite some time, the filth flowing back and forth may have been interesting, and some times even comical. And while it may (or may not) drive new players away, it has kept this community rooted in its tracks.

However, you must admit that the shennanigans of this set has made for quite an interesting story. I guess the whole animosity between the two clans might have started a long while ago with accusations being hurled in both directions. But with every story, isn't it the tension which makes it interesting? It's probably the best way to build action and keep things interesting within a community. It makes thing uncomfortable enough to force people to want to do something to reduce the tension. There's is usually little that's interesting about stories without conflict. I guess in this case we've had a protagonist and antagonist who've probably raised tensions between each other by elevating the level of opposition.

The best stories move beyond beginning tensions such as "So and so suicided on so and so and we know it!". Instead the story has been explored on numerous occasions and the plot has thickened with accusations of abuse of access and what not. Whatever. Ultimately, tensions always find a way to self-resolve. And what happens then? Where do we go from here? As you rightly pointed out, CHANGE needs to occur. CHANGE being the ultimate point of almsot every story worth telling. This feud will slowly fizzle...until the next feud starts in this community.

Having said that, I guess the answer to making EE's environment a lot more conducive for new players lies somewhere between two ends of the spectrum where "mundane booze/spam posts" meets "*** you (insert clan name here)". Thanks for the post pang. :)

Forgotten

Member
1590

Oct 26th 2011, 9:29:38

Originally posted by diez:
Btw, I don't know what exactly happened, but I heard that someone posted slagpit's personal information (fb page, photo) either in here or #earthempires and allegedly mocked it etc.

I know Slagpit never gives out his personal information easily (I never even get to know his real e-mail lol, let alone fb page). So whoever posted it must've put some real effort trying to stalk him.

Did that went unnoticed?


Anyone with a FB account can join the open group of either EarthEmpires or Earth2025 old community group.

and ANYONE that has joined those groups, can easily find personal identity of some famous players, some unknown players, and obviously, some of our admins.

It's not rocket science, and it's been blown out of proportion.

An open group on FB is public information, if you are going to lynch that player for posting public information, then where does it end?

would someone posting say a forum mod's real picture on AT means that he should be banned? maybe he was just curious who that person is behind the handle.


but then again, I really do want to know what a martian looks like.
~LaF's Retired Janitor~

davidoss

Member
643

Oct 26th 2011, 9:44:23

Also, if anyone starts feeling angry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5C6X9vOEkU

:)

ponderer

Member
678

Oct 26th 2011, 9:55:01

+1 pang

Forgotten: http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/...561_7664858_2258414_n.jpg

It's a very close likeness
m0m0rific

locket

Member
6176

Oct 26th 2011, 9:55:35

Originally posted by Forgotten:
Originally posted by diez:
Btw, I don't know what exactly happened, but I heard that someone posted slagpit's personal information (fb page, photo) either in here or #earthempires and allegedly mocked it etc.

I know Slagpit never gives out his personal information easily (I never even get to know his real e-mail lol, let alone fb page). So whoever posted it must've put some real effort trying to stalk him.

Did that went unnoticed?


Anyone with a FB account can join the open group of either EarthEmpires or Earth2025 old community group.

and ANYONE that has joined those groups, can easily find personal identity of some famous players, some unknown players, and obviously, some of our admins.

It's not rocket science, and it's been blown out of proportion.

An open group on FB is public information, if you are going to lynch that player for posting public information, then where does it end?

would someone posting say a forum mod's real picture on AT means that he should be banned? maybe he was just curious who that person is behind the handle.


but then again, I really do want to know what a martian looks like.

I think posting anyones RL info without their express permission is ALWAYS wrong. I would be REALLY pissed if it happened to me. Personally I think anyone stooping to that level should have country deleted and temp forum ban :P Show that its taken seriously.

This case though has been handled and I honestly don't think this discussion will stay civil so hopefully the rest of the posts just go with the spirit of the thread :P

locket

Member
6176

Oct 26th 2011, 9:57:29

Originally posted by davidoss:
Well said mate. Although, you must say that the animosity and subtextual (almost) hatred that has been broiling under the surface for some time between the parties involved had caused tensions to reach boiling point. That tension caused a lot of toxicity on this forum (as you rightly pointed out). I guess it's almost akin to some drama serial where there are two sides to every story. To a neutral person who may have been around for quite some time, the filth flowing back and forth may have been interesting, and some times even comical. And while it may (or may not) drive new players away, it has kept this community rooted in its tracks.

However, you must admit that the shennanigans of this set has made for quite an interesting story. I guess the whole animosity between the two clans might have started a long while ago with accusations being hurled in both directions. But with every story, isn't it the tension which makes it interesting? It's probably the best way to build action and keep things interesting within a community. It makes thing uncomfortable enough to force people to want to do something to reduce the tension. There's is usually little that's interesting about stories without conflict. I guess in this case we've had a protagonist and antagonist who've probably raised tensions between each other by elevating the level of opposition.

The best stories move beyond beginning tensions such as "So and so suicided on so and so and we know it!". Instead the story has been explored on numerous occasions and the plot has thickened with accusations of abuse of access and what not. Whatever. Ultimately, tensions always find a way to self-resolve. And what happens then? Where do we go from here? As you rightly pointed out, CHANGE needs to occur. CHANGE being the ultimate point of almsot every story worth telling. This feud will slowly fizzle...until the next feud starts in this community.

Having said that, I guess the answer to making EE's environment a lot more conducive for new players lies somewhere between two ends of the spectrum where "mundane booze/spam posts" meets "*** you (insert clan name here)". Thanks for the post pang. :)


Funny stuff :P This would be a best seller novel in earth groups ;) Go write it! You could sell... what 50 copies? :P I hope the next chapter of this story of yours involves slightly more civil discussion though :P

Jofel

Member
156

Oct 26th 2011, 10:33:46

*hugs Pang*

Thanks Pang, good to see not everyone lieks the hating going on. We will never participate in this. Any Monster doing this gets a kick from personally, even if I have to fly to that Monster... :-)
Join The Monsters in their struggle for peace, love and understanding:
http://www.boxcarhosting.net

RandyMD

Member
277

Oct 26th 2011, 10:35:00

a
Skype: randybumd
Email:

Y-NoT

Member
504

Oct 26th 2011, 10:51:30

much love!

mold

Member
118

Oct 26th 2011, 11:23:29

Good post.

Glad to see the game is doing well!

dagga

Member
1559

Oct 26th 2011, 11:55:08

This is a veiled defense of the abhorrent actions of Pang's lovechild, LaF.

If wars of this sort continue your 'upward trends' will dissapate very quickly. If the game's mecahnics continue to allow the bullfluff of this set, where you are allowed to fight meaningless grudge wars basically OOP, then the veterans you lose will greatly offset the slow trickle of new members the game is attracting.

Instead of this wishy washy defense of LaF & co how about you condemn their ingame actions instead of attacking meaningless posts on a forum that a small percentage of the game actually see?
signatures are stupid.
Months since LaF netgained: 22

Warster

Game Moderator
Primary, Express, Tourney, & FFA
4167

Oct 26th 2011, 12:04:24

*rolls eyes*
FFA- TKO Leader
Alliance- Monsters

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davidoss

Member
643

Oct 26th 2011, 12:38:20

dagga, mate... Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Son Goku

Member
744

Oct 26th 2011, 12:48:43

Originally posted by dagga:
This is a veiled defense of the abhorrent actions of Pang's lovechild, LaF.

If wars of this sort continue your 'upward trends' will dissapate very quickly. If the game's mecahnics continue to allow the bullfluff of this set, where you are allowed to fight meaningless grudge wars basically OOP, then the veterans you lose will greatly offset the slow trickle of new members the game is attracting.

Instead of this wishy washy defense of LaF & co how about you condemn their ingame actions instead of attacking meaningless posts on a forum that a small percentage of the game actually see?


Can we just start banning crap like this? It's obvious trolling and adds nothing.

ebola

Member
203

Oct 26th 2011, 12:51:05

I'm a veteran who returned after a couple years of retirement and I'm much more disgusted by what I have read on AT and the toxic atmosphere that rules on these boards for the last couple of months (and even more so in the last couple of weeks) than by the ingame actions of alliances. There's nothing there that hasn't happened before.

If you have an in-game system whereby you encourage players to participate on the forums, not making them a cesspit should be a priority.

Props to Dagga for a lovely case in point.

Edited By: ebola on Oct 26th 2011, 12:54:49. Reason: props added
See Original Post

Pang

Administrator
Game Development
5712

Oct 26th 2011, 13:16:14

dagga, you should leave this community. we'd all be better off if you did.

you obviously don't enjoy being here. all you do is attack the staff or other players in your posts. you want to make everything about 1a politics and that is flawed.

i encourage you to look for other places to spread your hate online. i've had enough of you spreading it here.

Edited By: Pang on Oct 26th 2011, 13:22:45
See Original Post
-=Pang=-
Earth Empires Staff
pangaea [at] earthempires [dot] com

Boxcar - Earth Empires Clan & Alliance Hosting
http://www.boxcarhosting.com

vintage'

Member
84

Oct 26th 2011, 13:41:19

Hear hear Pang. I don't have the time or energy I gave this game in University. I can respect a well run war, etc. But there is no need to get nasty...

Unless you're sitting next to Marshal ;P

Jofel

Member
156

Oct 26th 2011, 13:41:49

Give dagga a perma ban and thus help this game grow. Such haters ruin this game.
Join The Monsters in their struggle for peace, love and understanding:
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iNouda

Member
1043

Oct 26th 2011, 14:00:42

But dagga is awesome! :O

Sir Balin

Member
652

Oct 26th 2011, 14:03:52

dagga is nice if for nothing more than having a lightning rod for the disgust of players on all sides.

bertz

Member
1638

Oct 26th 2011, 14:09:49

Can't we have some sort of proper outlet of "hatred" if you don't want it here?

I mean why can't we give some a chance to speak if he's opposing to the way politics were run? Opposing point of views adds spice to game. If Clan A is pulling dirty tactics but is making a nice effort to appear the good in AT, why can't the people on the opposing sides say there opinions?
btw, I'm just asking.

Dibs Ludicrous

Member
6702

Oct 26th 2011, 14:40:39

*peeks head from under the bridge.
rut roh shaggy
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sigma

Member
406

Oct 26th 2011, 14:41:40

Bertz: People do have the ability to vent their frustrations through the forum and irc. However, it is not proper for them to turn their frustrations into conspiracy theories, personal attacks, and whatnot. Its been stated many times over that if you feel something is being abused by whomever to contact Martian. The email is there and you can resolve it.

What I've seen in this past couple weeks has been over the top, and not just making opinions opposing politics.

Kalick

Member
699

Oct 26th 2011, 14:48:39

Originally posted by sigma:
Bertz: People do have the ability to vent their frustrations through the forum and irc. However, it is not proper for them to turn their frustrations into conspiracy theories, personal attacks, and whatnot. Its been stated many times over that if you feel something is being abused by whomever to contact Martian. The email is there and you can resolve it.

What I've seen in this past couple weeks has been over the top, and not just making opinions opposing politics.


While I'm against personal attacks, what is wrong with conspiracy theories? Given the importance of secret coalitions, political manuevering, and everything RD (the secret identities and alliance infiltration thing may have been cool if not for the rampant cheating), I'd say conspiracies have been an integral part of Earth's history and what makes it interesting. Conspiracies in this game are real and fun. Sometimes, people really are out to get you.

Edited By: Kalick on Oct 26th 2011, 15:06:42
See Original Post

sigma

Member
406

Oct 26th 2011, 14:58:17

That's not the type of conspiracy theories I'm referring to; my apologizes. Those are in-game/political conspiracies that (minus RD) didn't break the game rules. The conspiracy theories I was referring to, I would rather not state as it has no merit.

Kalick

Member
699

Oct 26th 2011, 15:16:59

Oh, I think I get what you mean in this context. Players/alliances should not feel that Game developers/admins are out to get them. I agree with that.