Bullfluff indeed. What do you do to people who attack a player with over 100 000 acres? What do you do to people who retal one hit with three of their own? What do you do when someone uses offensive spy ops in general or before a retal? In my experience in the game and the forums; you slaughter them, despite the fact that those are all things you would do if you were new to the game.

And I really call bullfluff on the messages to untaggeds. I ran half the set with 16 untagged countries because my browser didn't want to pull the clan page up properly and not one of those 16 countries got a single message about it, and I didn't post my countries on the forum or my intentions until long after I had finally tagged up.

And you yourself just said you will kill any new player who returns a hit with a gs or br. Guess what, if you have all turrets and jets and your clan hits their countries multiple times a GS or BR is exactly what they would do because they're new and don't know better. Killing them for is is pure fluff.

As is the idea that you're "more then willing to re supply a country and pay reps over and above the damages caused if a mistake is made."
First you'll only do it if you consider it a mistake, which means if it's killing them for making a typical new player mistake they get nothing. In addition to that even if you get them back to their position you'll try and guilt them into joining your clan, and it takes time to get them back to where they were. Even if you managed to get them the resources it still takes days worth of turns, perhaps a week or two depending how far you are into the set; at which point they're only where they were before you killed them meaning they lost perhaps a week or two worth of growth.
And that's only the players who decide to stick around. A lot of people, I dare say most people, will simply quit the game if a week's worth of effort is instantly destroyed simply for attacking the wrong country or trying to retal for land instead of hits.

So yes, that is punishing new players. You expect every new player to automatically know exactly how they're supposed to act and exactly what types of hits and spy ops are acceptable and which aren't. A new player isn't going to know those things, a new player won't instantly know that GS's, BR's, Missles, and Offensive Spy Ops are all grounds for immediately and total destruction; as is topfeeding, retaling for land, hitting the same clan (not even country, just general clan) more than once in 48 hours, not tagging up immediately, not stating your intentions on the forums, etc. If you don't know the intricacies of the clan enforced unwritten rules; then you die. And that's not fun, and a game that isn't fun is a game that people don't play.

By the way, set to set:
2092 this set
2675 last set
3064 the set before that
2984 before that
3126 before that
3418 before that
4036 before that - one year ago

So in the last year FFA has nearly halved. The year before that was slightly lower but still pulled 3694 which is 1600 (or basically 100 people) more than now. Going back to the first set in Jan 18, 2010 - Mar 20, 2010 this is the lowest set and the first and only set to dip below 2500 countries, and it's below it by over 400.
So there you go: it's the lowest turn out set, the second lowest still had about 500 more countries than now, it's the first the dip below 2500 countries, and it's been on a steady downward spiral for over a year with only one set in that time that had a slight increase of only 80 countries only to lose almost 400 the nest set and almost 600 the set after that. So consider yourself proven wrong.

Yep. It's not just FFA though; the entire game is dieing for similar reasons. There's no casual-gaming here anymore, and don't forget the suicider-mentality problem.

Basically if you're new then you need to know in advance tag all your countries, come to the forums to state your intentions, and get a hold of FA's to state your intentions to them and try to get peace-deals. However if you're new and have few posts then you're a troll so no one will believe you thinking you're really just a suicider. At some point they will assume you're going to suicide, likely because of some mistake you make as a new player (such as demoralizing the enemy before attacking, which doesn't seem like a bad idea when you're new); at which point they will either farm or kill you. If you survive and retaliate, then they declare you a suicider and they kill you.
At which point they'll complain on the forums about the suicider problem and say that they need to keep killing countries like that to prevent suiciders.

Which leads to one of three real possibilities:
1) You join a big clan and continue the cycle.
2) You become a suicider deciding that's the only way you can play until they stop killing countries like that.
3) You quit.


Most new people won't choose option one because it takes time and energy to play a game where they're already being punished for being new, and it's very difficult to be a casual gamer in a clan. So it leads to declining numbers and increasing suiciders.

Why? And who's the say it's desperation for cash? I own a monster truck racing game for the Wii; owned it for years now. I've never played it, it's still in the original packaging. It was a gift, but it's not my type of game. What's wrong with trading it in? Or how about older games that you don't play anymore or have multiples of? I have Assassins Creed for the PS3; but I also have it from steam as part of a bundle with the second game and one of the side games; the bundle was cheaper than buying just one of the games. What's wrong with trading an old game I don't play and that I have a double of?

As I said, it was an example of what I'm referring to which is a larger problem with the game in general, not with any one clan or even server. I only pointed out it was a SOTA hit because I didn't want this to seem like an anti-CC thread or my paragraph to be an attack on them; it's not about you guys or anyone. The fact is they've implemented rules recently (at least on the Alliance server and I'm guessing her as well) to depower land-trading because it was being abused.

So it wasn't meant as an attack on SOTA; and in fact I didn't say it was cheating or even an unfair tactic. It's a normal tactic in the game and I know that. What I was saying is that it's an example of how Earth doesn't really provide a place for casual gaming.

Imagine if I had been untagged and retaled by acres rather than 1:1 hits. That would have meant about 4-5 retal hits to get my land back, and no tag. You guys may have messaged me; but I think we can agree that the majority of clans would simply assume I was a suicider and kill me. But a new casual player wouldn't necessarily know to tag up and certainly wouldn't know the retal rules. So I wasn't trying to attack you guys; I was just pointing out one example of how earth doesn't provide a place for new casual players who have no experience here.

So if you thought I was calling SOTA out, I apologize; that wasn't my intention and as I said, I know that's a standard tactic and I'm not trying to focus on any one clan or server but simply talk about the game in general.

Yes, that's true. I'm not speaking about this situation specifically; I only know what's posted here, and things are never as simple as the forums imply so I try not to speak about specific cases.

I was talking about problem in general. My example of the guy hitting me wasn't from CC either; it was SOTA (I'm Hellenic if you were wondering, I like playing solo clans because I'm not on everyday so I don't want to make a big commitment with the chance of wars).

But yeah, it wasn't about this specific case. I have no idea what the timeframe for the hits were. 30 hits in one hour on your top country is different from 30 hits all set across 16 countries (for example).

So mrford; by that logic it's okay for me to suicide on the top clans right? Because while they're tagged; they have not stated their intentions not to randomly kill me for no reason, and as you can see in this thread they've done it before to others.

The logic of "well he might possibly someday be a minor nuisance to me despite the lack of evidence demonstrating that" is insane.


Let's face it; it's not the small one-man tags that are the problem. The problem are the people hiding behind huge tags who purposefully try and screw the little tags. There are people (just hit by one) who load up on military strategy tech, then attack their own country (also loaded on military strategy tech) multiple times. Then then use that country to attack smaller tags so that it's been hit multiple times (thus low gains in a retal) before their attack. That way they can funnel acres to their top countries and make sure that they can't be retalled properly. The guy who hit me didn't bother with defence at all, 0 defence anywhere; because he knows that if I try and take my acres back he can have his clan just kill me off claiming I'm a suicider.

That's what's wrong and that's the problem. This game has slaughtered any attempt at casual gaming. The idea of FFA is supposed to be where you can try out multiple strats; the wiki says "This is a terrific server for newer players wanting to learn about the game"; but in truth, as you pointed out, you must be tagged and have stated your intentions in order to not get farmed and killed; and in order for that to work you need to be known. Me stating that my intentions are to net is useless when I haven't played in years and no one knows me, people will just assume I am a troll waiting to suicide. That would be the same for all new players.

So no, the problem is not that players in one man clans do not actively seek out FAs to get treaties and prove that they are peaceful; the problem is that if you do not do those things that the existing clans will simply wipe you out at any given time.

Sorry; I didn't play my turns last night so I didn't put the mil on the market. I just threw a bunch on for you guys; there's about 3.1 mil Jets hitting the market and 4.3 mil turrets; plus some more troops and tanks of course.

Oh yeah. I remember the RD in Earth2025; they were just a massive group of multies under similar tags.

Way to ad hom rather than actually addressing the issue.

Now you say it was kept secret; so allow me to post this from 2006:
http://yahoo.usatoday.com/...gton/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm

Then let me point out Warrentless Wiretapping approved by Bush Jr. and FISA which replaced it and loosened the rules.

Now allow me to point out that you and I are talking online in an international conversation so nothing on this is private for you.

Now let me point out that they're not just monitoring calls; they're monitoring emails and websites which is where the 4% calculation comes into effect.

Then let me point out that the story that broke in the Guardian Newspaper was about not the NSA listening in on calls but them collecting your call records which is a story that broke in 2006 (the link provided).

Then let me point out that the documents released do not say they have been listening and recording your calls.

Then let me point out that there's a difference in what's going on. I.E. that them collecting information on your calls is handled differently than on your emails. The information on your calls has been legal since 2001 under the warrantless wiretapping and doesn't require a warrant because of that. The emails is a program meant to monitor the internet actions of foreigners and they only require 51% certainty that the person is a foreigner. As that's online; that's where the 4% population comes into play.

Finally; let me call you a douche for ad hom attacking me on an issue you are unclear on; especially when your logic requires you to ignore the fact that the story broke 7 years ago.

Actually the NSA was doing that, and they're not police. In addition to that the fourth amendment only applies to American citizens in the United States; not to foreign persons oversees; to which they set up a regulation requiring only 51% certainty that the person they are monitoring is a foreigner, thus bypassing the fourth amendment protection anyways.


The government absolutely can open your mail if they have a reasonable belief that there is anthrax in it. Heck, reasonable belief of a crime in progress allows them to enter your house without a warrant. Reasonable belief in this case was specifically defined as a 51% chance that the person online is a foreigner. The U.S. only represents 4% of the population of the world; so that's easy to justify.


That's what I think you don't understand. You want this to be illegal; you want them to have violated the law. But they haven't. They need a reasonable belief or permission. They have both. They did it all legally and they've been doing it for years and we've known for years. They didn't need to violate the law to do it; they weakened it instead. They defined reasonable in such a way that they always have a reasonable belief and the people who need to ok their actions never say no.

Technically the government owns practically everything; including the land those are on. But that's not really the point, the point is that you don't own it so the fourth amendment doesn't protect it for you.

Yes, reasonable suspicion; which for the case at hand means they need two things.

1) A 51% chance that the person they are monitoring is foreign. That's pretty easy to get, if they pushed it they could just say that American's only represent 4% of the world population so there's a 96% chance that the person online is a foreigner.

2) They need to make requests to the agency who oversees them. Easy enough since they requested over 1000 times last year and were never denied.


They didn't need to violate any laws; they just weakened the regulations to the point where they could justify it practically anytime.

It doesn't though. The fourth amendment protects against unreasonable search and seizures. In the past that would be enough; but the fourth amendment only protects you and your property. Every street as a switchboard on it that directs calls automatically; that's not your property. That's government property so the fourth amendment does protect search and seizures of that, which means your calls can be monitored.

Think of it like mail; the government can't go into your house to look at your mail. But if you send something in the mail they can open it up and check if they feel there's a reasonable chance that there's anthrax inside of it.

The government didn't violate that. First they got permission; just as police can search your house with a warrant.

More importantly though; they didn't search or invade your property at all. All your calls go through phone lines and switchboards. All your emails go through similar things and through servers. They don't need to search your house for listen to your calls. They can get you on the phone line, the switchboard on your street/block, at the servers, etc. They aren't allowed to go in your home to look at your computer; but they can intercept it the second you hit send; they're crafty like that.

He's a criminal; from a legal standpoint it's not really a question. He betrayed his country and government and it was wrong.

So I am against what he did.

Remember that what the U.S. Government has been doing isn't illegal. It probably should be, but it's not; so he wasn't simply bringing illegal activity to light, he was disclosing sensitive classified information which is something that we cannot allow, no matter how good the intentions.

Now that doesn't mean I agree with the Government's actions; I generally agree with what John Oliver said: "Nobody's saying you did anything illegal, we just think it's weird that you didn't have to."

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