Verified:

zzzzzynxng

Member

72

Apr 11th 2019, 21:16:43

Hi guys,

To what degree should one rainbow in the sense that ... it seems that Industrial Complexes and Military Bases are quite necessary. How do you guys decide how much of other buildings to build in addition to your main strat builds?

Thank you,
Z
I've been here for like 4 months and I still don't know what you guys are talking about.

boardb

Member

19

Apr 11th 2019, 21:33:42

this is interesting to me as I've never built military bases so am intrigued to see the response. Never = one round of primary, 2 tournaments and 2 express.

KoHeartsGPA

Member

18,959

Apr 11th 2019, 21:40:07

I only have enough Indy to produce spies, under 800 scale down in next few days to about 250, I have under 400 farms, CS to 100bpt, and rest is labs cuz I'm a techer.
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

bug03

Member

1012

Apr 11th 2019, 21:46:51

I’ve got about 300 oil rigs and 600 ish indies. I’ve been as high as 1200 indies from grabbing but I destroyed some. The only time you build military bases is if you’re building ALL mb. Once I get to 800k spies I’ll destroy all my indies most likely.

Gerdler

Member

1626

Apr 11th 2019, 21:55:27

Dont build military bases. Industrial complexes and construction sites are the only off-strat buildings you should generally have if you are a techer or casher. If you are a fascist farmer you can have some rigs too, and sometimes if you are an indy or a non-fascist farmer you will be better off building some few rigs for your own use when the market is particularily empty of oil.

Specialization is key in this game.

Casher:
other than your CS (construction sites) and ICs(industrial complexes) you build about 50/50 enterprise zones and residentials. Specialization is extremely important due to necessary synergies between your buildings and their formulas.

Techer: other than your CS and ICs you build 100% labs. Specialization is extremely important due to the tech per turn formula.

Indy: Ideally you only build ICs and CS. Specialization is key but the building formulas don't punish you.

Farmer: Ideally you only Farms except for your ICs and CS. If you are a facsist you probably can use rigs too. Specialization is key but the building formulas don't punish you.


The reason you want to specialize with a farmer and indy even tho the building formulas dont punish you is because you spend all your resources on just one main tech and your government and playstyle will be set to benefit you most when building on-strat buildings.

If you spend all your extra cash on indy tech and you are a commie indy you dont want farms because they will produce less than 1/3 of the value of goods as your ICs produce. Just build on strat buildings and use the market.

Edited By: Gerdler on Apr 11th 2019, 22:00:16

Gerdler

Member

1626

Apr 11th 2019, 22:00:04

Ohh and yeah the only reason the non-indy strats need some ICs is because they need spies. its not for jets/turrets/tanks/troops at all.

KoHeartsGPA

Member

18,959

Apr 11th 2019, 22:02:10

The more rainbow you are, the more you'll be hit for land.
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

boardb

Member

19

Apr 11th 2019, 22:31:07

This is good stuff thanks guys.

I'm enjoying teching for sure, just tech and indy for me...don't imagine I'll ever get to 800k spies!! That's a lot no?

KoHeartsGPA

Member

18,959

Apr 11th 2019, 22:43:25

Spies are expensive so you don't want too many, I run 15 to 20 spies per acre of land (spal)
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Assassin

Member

812

Apr 12th 2019, 1:44:49

but they're oh-so-handy if you want to ruin someone else's set

Relax lah

Member

836

Apr 12th 2019, 2:16:54

Lol speaking from experience eh bro :p

Gerdler

Member

1626

Apr 12th 2019, 3:11:27

15-20 can be way too much or a tenth of what you need depending on your situation and purpose. You kinda feel that out with experience and look at what the others have.

the most important thing is that you learn to press out as much efficiency in goods/money production out of every acre of your country, the secondary thing is getting as many acres as you can as early as you can. Only that secondary task is made easier with more spies. Spies are the only essential resource in this game that you cant buy.

Serpentor

Member

2616

Apr 12th 2019, 6:41:34

Lol @ this thread!!!


Sorry.. drinking

I didn’t read it but gerdy probably said what you need.
The EEVIL Empire

bug03

Member

1012

Apr 12th 2019, 6:59:11

800k spies isn’t that much when your land goal is 40k

boardb

Member

19

Apr 12th 2019, 15:29:25

or 50k I guess.

DeLpHiNuS

Member

389

Apr 12th 2019, 16:35:30

i have 35 spal though cos im irritated by the high failures on ppl with much less spal, if i had under 30..

zzzzzynxng

Member

72

Apr 12th 2019, 17:09:41

Hi guys,

Wow there are so many replies.

Thank you @Gerdler for the in-depth explanations where abbreviations are defined (God knows I spent a half hour trying to figure out what "bpt" meant first time I came across that... earlier today...).

Thank you always @bug, @koh, & others

I was under the impression that MB lowered military expenses... I guess I can tear those all down now.

I've been here for like 4 months and I still don't know what you guys are talking about.

Gerdler

Member

1626

Apr 12th 2019, 17:14:28

That they do. But they are not effective enough at doing that to warrant running them for that purpose alone. So MBs are used in some servers for some strategies to jump with.

Serpentor

Member

2616

Apr 12th 2019, 17:27:01

Putting the building towards what building type your specializing in is the productive way to go. When you get big enough military expenses, you can buy tech to lower it.
The EEVIL Empire

zzzzzynxng

Member

72

Apr 12th 2019, 18:07:48

Originally posted by Gerdler:
That they do. But they are not effective enough at doing that to warrant running them for that purpose alone. So MBs are used in some servers for some strategies to jump with.
Originally posted by Serpentor:
Putting the building towards what building type your specializing in is the productive way to go. When you get big enough military expenses, you can buy tech to lower it.


Ohhhhhh.....
I've been here for like 4 months and I still don't know what you guys are talking about.

bug03

Member

1012

Apr 12th 2019, 20:17:31

That’s why in that pm I sent you I said essential techs for you are bus/res, secondary military/weapons, tertiary mil strat/ warfare/sdi

zzzzzynxng

Member

72

Apr 12th 2019, 20:51:45

Originally posted by bug03:
That’s why in that pm I sent you I said essential techs for you are bus/res, secondary military/weapons, tertiary mil strat/ warfare/sdi


Bug has been a good but tough mentor ( ̄^ ̄)ゞ

I've been here for like 4 months and I still don't know what you guys are talking about.

bug03

Member

1012

Apr 12th 2019, 22:02:50

Lol

Side note: I didn’t build enough cs and it’s starting to irritate me

KoHeartsGPA

Member

18,959

Apr 13th 2019, 3:20:46

I've made that mistake before, sux
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

bug03

Member

1012

Apr 13th 2019, 4:22:07

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
I've made that mistake before, sux
only at 80 and I passed 25k two days ago

zzzzzynxng

Member

72

Apr 13th 2019, 10:48:15

I also under CS'd... I wonder if it's too late to change that now...
I'm reasoning that building CS is kind of like... a less economic way of cashing in turns, but you gain a CS!

Stupid or not stupid??? :S
I've been here for like 4 months and I still don't know what you guys are talking about.

Marshal

Member

29,758

Apr 13th 2019, 11:17:18

not too late.
Patience: Yep, I'm with ELK and Marshal.

ELKronos: Patty is more hairy.

Galleri: Sadly pics of my boobies are on my ftp-folder.

LadyGrizz boobies is fine

NOW3P: Morwen is a much harsher mistress than boredom....

bug03

Member

1012

Apr 13th 2019, 12:58:26

Originally posted by zzzzzynxng:
I also under CS'd... I wonder if it's too late to change that now...
I'm reasoning that building CS is kind of like... a less economic way of cashing in turns, but you gain a CS!

Stupid or not stupid??? :S


So quick math- what’s the difference between cashing a turn and building a cs? For me it’s $3.5m. 20cs would cost $70m. Nah I’m good

Gerdler

Member

1626

Apr 13th 2019, 14:35:56

Marshal is wrong. It's too late for a casher to build CS. Also for techer ofc. A farmer or indy could do it perhaps just because it doesn't cost them as much.

zzzzzynxng

Member

72

Apr 13th 2019, 16:14:45

Hey guys,

I tried to do the math to see if at this point of the game it is still worth building more CS (I am a casher). This is what I got:

Let's pretend we have 2 situations: SituA and SituB.

In SituA, I have 200CS and 55bpt, and I will not make any more CS.
In SituB, I have 200CS and 55bpt but will spend 100turns to get to 300CS and 80bpt.

At the end of 100 turns, SituA has made $1.2billion income. SituB has made income of $980million ($240million less than SituB) BUT!!, now I can build 80bpt.

I spend the next 15 turns lging and if all goes well, I get like 5000 acres that I now need to develop...

(During the lging, SituB is still $240million behind SituA bc I have not made any new Residential or Enterprise buildings...)

Next, I must develop these 5000 acres I just got. In SituA where I have 55bpt, it will take me 90 turns. In SituB, where I have 80bpt, it will take me 63turns.

This means that SituB will spend 27turns less than SituA... and if we cash these 27turns at the same rate as before (actually now the cashing will be even greater since we're building res/bus to increase income, but for hypothetical reasons I'll just use the old cashing amount) SituB makes $327million at the same time SituA finished developing the 5000acres, which will more than make up for the $240mill lag created during the building of 100CS??

In total, this process for both SituA and B have used 205 turns, which is about 4.3days.

Idk guys I feel like I'm leaving about 7000 factors out so idk how much to trust this math. My point was basically to try and figure out... if I spend 100turns getting from 55pbt to 80bpt, will this save me enough turns in the long run that building an extra 100CS is actually more profitable than NOT building the extra 100CS *in the long run*.


Thanks for reading...
Z
I've been here for like 4 months and I still don't know what you guys are talking about.

Serpentor

Member

2616

Apr 13th 2019, 19:22:26

As an Indy I reached my 100bpt a few days ago. I usually just stop there. For Indy going more or less on this server won’t make a big impact. I’ve played with more CS, and it’s kind of at that point where all the varying factors start to equal out. The turns still get used, and have enough resources to build the land. Definitely would be different on alliance. You would build to the optimum number based on your land goal right away in tag protection and go from there. Here you have to grow and stay on top while progressively building Cs to be successful.

For us, all turns are spent grabbing and building, and any extra turns go to cs. I always stop at 100 bpt because it’s a nice round number to build with, and any remaining turns from then on go to exploring or cashing depending how many days left.
The EEVIL Empire

bug03

Member

1012

Apr 13th 2019, 22:13:45

Z- You’re losing all the growth you could have gotten during those 100 turns building the cs which includes all the land you could have grabbed plus the added revenues from building in that land. 100 turns is a lot. Also, it’s not even the 100 turns you could be cashing right now, it’s the 100 turns you would be cashing at the end of the set when you have the most income while stocking. Turns aren’t sequential.


Also 15 turns for land grabbing is 7 grabs (without using turns to regain readiness) and at the rate you grab, that’s about 2800 acres.

bug03

Member

1012

Apr 13th 2019, 22:15:46

Serp- how much per turn are you paying to explore 6 acres by not cashing? How many turns with it take 6 acres of indies to make up that cash difference?

zzzzzynxng

Member

72

Apr 13th 2019, 23:12:23

Originally posted by bug03:
Z- You’re losing all the growth you could have gotten during those 100 turns building the cs which includes all the land you could have grabbed plus the added revenues from building in that land. 100 turns is a lot. Also, it’s not even the 100 turns you could be cashing right now, it’s the 100 turns you would be cashing at the end of the set when you have the most income while stocking. Turns aren’t sequential.


Also 15 turns for land grabbing is 7 grabs (without using turns to regain readiness) and at the rate you grab, that’s about 2800 acres.


You're right. Nobody would be cashing 100 turns at this point of the game so SituA was unrealistic therefore also useless in the comparison.

From above ^ does this mean that between lging and building you don't cash any turns?

I've been here for like 4 months and I still don't know what you guys are talking about.

Serpentor

Member

2616

Apr 13th 2019, 23:41:26

Originally posted by bug03:
Serp- how much per turn are you paying to explore 6 acres by not cashing? How many turns with it take 6 acres of indies to make up that cash difference?


I haven’t run the numbers in ages... I believe I had exploring those few leftover turns ends up being slightly better until about a week or two left. Then cashing them is better because the production of the acres can’t produce what you’d save by cashing. All based on how many turns are left.
I’ll look at it in a bit.
The EEVIL Empire

bug03

Member

1012

Apr 13th 2019, 23:45:05

No, inevitably, there will be times when you have no land to build and no money to buy more units or oil to land grab. It’s more profitable to cash turns in order to buy units than it is to cash turns to buy tech. You want to already have the tech then cash the turns.

Example: you have 20 turns, enough money to buy more tech or to buy units to land grab- not both. Buy the tech first, cash a few turns, then buy the units to land grab. Acquiring land lowers your pci significantly.

You might have noticed a change in my lg style recently. Currently, I’m not cashing any turns because I make more than double in cash per turn than what it costs to build a turn of buildings. Part of this is due to my bpt being less than optimal. Part of it is that Im behind on land if I’m going to make it to 40k in time. If I had the jets to make 3 ps a day instead of 4 ss and 1 ps, I would. That’s 4 turns cashed per day difference plus (assuming 2k land grabbed per day if I had 100 bpt instead of 80) 5 more turns cashed from building. That’s ~$27m, or a net loss of 2 turns a day.


Turns not spend building spying or grabbing should be cashed. This is also why you need a good spal- in order to save turns not failing spy ops.

bug03

Member

1012

Apr 13th 2019, 23:48:47

Originally posted by Serpentor:
Originally posted by bug03:
Serp- how much per turn are you paying to explore 6 acres by not cashing? How many turns with it take 6 acres of indies to make up that cash difference?


I haven’t run the numbers in ages... I believe I had exploring those few leftover turns ends up being slightly better until about a week or two left. Then cashing them is better because the production of the acres can’t produce what you’d save by cashing. All based on how many turns are left.
I’ll look at it in a bit.


This is actually a good exercise because a new person running a rep casher is definitely going to think that exploring is a good option. Oddly enough, it’s less valuable for a casher than any other strat (except techer but new people shouldn’t tech) because of the cash button.

Serpentor

Member

2616

Apr 13th 2019, 23:54:35

So for me at this time...
On a 6 acre exlplore i’d Lose out on the $853,290 cashing and it’d cost $717,588 to build. That’s $1,570,878.

With the turns remaining, I’d get about $4,590,000 worth of turrets produced.

Not time to cash the few leftover turns yet for a fully teched up Indy.
The EEVIL Empire

Serpentor

Member

2616

Apr 14th 2019, 0:22:12

Yeah it’s somewhere in between a week or two left for a fully teched Indy to switch. Your comparison also depends on average cost of units over the time frame too. Set with cheaper goods would be sooner to change, etc.. it’s so close anyway that changing anywhere in that time frame is fine.
The EEVIL Empire

KoHeartsGPA

Member

18,959

Apr 14th 2019, 0:31:43

Originally posted by Serpentor:
As an Indy I reached my 100bpt a few days ago. I usually just stop there. For Indy going more or less on this server won’t make a big impact. I’ve played with more CS, and it’s kind of at that point where all the varying factors start to equal out. The turns still get used, and have enough resources to build the land. Definitely would be different on alliance. You would build to the optimum number based on your land goal right away in tag protection and go from there. Here you have to grow and stay on top while progressively building Cs to be successful.

For us, all turns are spent grabbing and building, and any extra turns go to cs. I always stop at 100 bpt because it’s a nice round number to build with, and any remaining turns from then on go to exploring or cashing depending how many days left.


I agree with you, this is my first set coming out the gate with 100bpt and so far it is my best set :-)
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

bug03

Member

1012

Apr 14th 2019, 1:32:27

You’re also Theo and have less cs than me...

There was a point early in the set where I could have built more cs however I used those 40 turns on nukes.

Can’t build on your land if you can’t keep it.

bug03

Member

1012

Apr 14th 2019, 1:33:13

Also, you’re doing a lot more grabbing than I’m used to seeing from you. 👍

KoHeartsGPA

Member

18,959

Apr 14th 2019, 1:39:10

Yeah but I had to slow down, the risk vs reward isn't there on the targets I can reach, lots of nukes out there, changed up my approach.
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

bug03

Member

1012

Apr 14th 2019, 1:44:55

I’m SSing the lowest nw country I can with 0 nukes until they fall out of range. Rinse and repeat until someone makes me stop or it’s time to hit the cash button