May 7th 2011, 5:04:38
i have already started my bottle or two wine this evening, so i'll keep this short and wait until morning to read more.
"I don't see why people make such a distinction at pre-infant stages of life; if a fetus has less brain power than a cat, why do you have no problems with people putting down cats, but *DO* have a problem aborting the fetus? What part of human cellular matter is so special?"
posted by qzjul.
If I kill a cat do I go to jail for the rest of my life? If I kill a human do I? It should work both ways, no?
"Also, at what point do you draw the line? An early abortion removes a fetus that is less cells than I lose in the shower; should we not ban showers? and what of those precious skin cells you're washing down the drain?"
If the bathing in water ended your life I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be so common place. Try putting a bullet in your brain, see if that catches on with the general public?
"Evidence for a human soul? oh right, there ISN'T ANY!"
then we can kill with no issue at hand? you have no evidence of your soul, so we can kill you no issue at hand? what if the child is ten minutes before literal birth? why not half a minute after birth? As you asked, where do we draw the line?
"i honestly don't care how much you have to cough up in the form of income tax to pay for your "free health care", y'all run around and act like it doesn't cost resources and money for people to provide it."
Dibs, only the fools do. Some of us (read me) understand things cost money, and people need to pay for it. out of pocket before you get the money in your pocket is still your money being spent..
"s, we were going to discuss why women would actually need an abortion if they decided to engage in consentual sex, which is pretty much required in this day and age, since we're not allowed to rape them into pregnancy.."
Because two fifteen year olds, experimenting harmlessly who make a mistake might be in their best interest to set things straight. If you can do this early enough, I do not care. People masterbate, I do not consider this mass murder. I understand their right to choose, and they need to understand their non-right to murder. how do we meet in the middle, i don't know. lets not start killing abortion doctors, though, can we agree on this?
"Are you trying to infer that women DONT have the right to get "knocked up" if they so wish?
What next are you going to clothe them in burkas and forbid them to show anything but just their eyes?"
Vilse, should the mother be allowed to stab herself in the stomach to abort the child? Should she be allowed to 8.5 months into her pregnancy get cold feet and abort the child? Why not a month after birth, drown it in the bath tub? Have the doctor humanely kill the month old child? When do we consider the childs right to be alive supersceding the mothers right to make a decision? and why didn't she decide to safely engage in sex, or why did she go into the sexual encounter desiring a child? surely she understands the birds and the bees.
if she is raped, no, abort until you're blue in the face (but i think it's more efficient if you stop when the baby goes blue?)
"i typed up a big post on the societal issues of forcing people to have unwanted babies, but i decided that this argument isn't worth taking part in."
That is too bad, pang, because I was really looking forward to your answering, what about all the parents who try to have children, but aren't able to, and instead would **love** to adopt this child, and give it a caring and loving and safe home, with a bright promising future to as you later went on to say "..be a net gain to society". adopting, raising and nurturing the child certainly seems like a better way to, what you said, than either abortion or the distribution of federal tax dollars (or provincial, if it happens to work out that way?)
qz again (not meaning to pick on you, i promise :P)
"Maybe in the future we'll simply sterilize people at birth and grow test-tube babies for them when they want a family. "
the nazis tried eugenics. I'm good, thank you. but i have always wanted to join a resistance?
It would appear i went most of the way through. You'll have to excuse any logical fallacies and fluffty grammar, as i mentioned above i had a number of drinks ;)
but you'll also notice i didn't have any unwanted pregnancies, so i won't be murdering any children..
"I don't see why people make such a distinction at pre-infant stages of life; if a fetus has less brain power than a cat, why do you have no problems with people putting down cats, but *DO* have a problem aborting the fetus? What part of human cellular matter is so special?"
posted by qzjul.
If I kill a cat do I go to jail for the rest of my life? If I kill a human do I? It should work both ways, no?
"Also, at what point do you draw the line? An early abortion removes a fetus that is less cells than I lose in the shower; should we not ban showers? and what of those precious skin cells you're washing down the drain?"
If the bathing in water ended your life I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be so common place. Try putting a bullet in your brain, see if that catches on with the general public?
"Evidence for a human soul? oh right, there ISN'T ANY!"
then we can kill with no issue at hand? you have no evidence of your soul, so we can kill you no issue at hand? what if the child is ten minutes before literal birth? why not half a minute after birth? As you asked, where do we draw the line?
"i honestly don't care how much you have to cough up in the form of income tax to pay for your "free health care", y'all run around and act like it doesn't cost resources and money for people to provide it."
Dibs, only the fools do. Some of us (read me) understand things cost money, and people need to pay for it. out of pocket before you get the money in your pocket is still your money being spent..
"s, we were going to discuss why women would actually need an abortion if they decided to engage in consentual sex, which is pretty much required in this day and age, since we're not allowed to rape them into pregnancy.."
Because two fifteen year olds, experimenting harmlessly who make a mistake might be in their best interest to set things straight. If you can do this early enough, I do not care. People masterbate, I do not consider this mass murder. I understand their right to choose, and they need to understand their non-right to murder. how do we meet in the middle, i don't know. lets not start killing abortion doctors, though, can we agree on this?
"Are you trying to infer that women DONT have the right to get "knocked up" if they so wish?
What next are you going to clothe them in burkas and forbid them to show anything but just their eyes?"
Vilse, should the mother be allowed to stab herself in the stomach to abort the child? Should she be allowed to 8.5 months into her pregnancy get cold feet and abort the child? Why not a month after birth, drown it in the bath tub? Have the doctor humanely kill the month old child? When do we consider the childs right to be alive supersceding the mothers right to make a decision? and why didn't she decide to safely engage in sex, or why did she go into the sexual encounter desiring a child? surely she understands the birds and the bees.
if she is raped, no, abort until you're blue in the face (but i think it's more efficient if you stop when the baby goes blue?)
"i typed up a big post on the societal issues of forcing people to have unwanted babies, but i decided that this argument isn't worth taking part in."
That is too bad, pang, because I was really looking forward to your answering, what about all the parents who try to have children, but aren't able to, and instead would **love** to adopt this child, and give it a caring and loving and safe home, with a bright promising future to as you later went on to say "..be a net gain to society". adopting, raising and nurturing the child certainly seems like a better way to, what you said, than either abortion or the distribution of federal tax dollars (or provincial, if it happens to work out that way?)
qz again (not meaning to pick on you, i promise :P)
"Maybe in the future we'll simply sterilize people at birth and grow test-tube babies for them when they want a family. "
the nazis tried eugenics. I'm good, thank you. but i have always wanted to join a resistance?
It would appear i went most of the way through. You'll have to excuse any logical fallacies and fluffty grammar, as i mentioned above i had a number of drinks ;)
but you'll also notice i didn't have any unwanted pregnancies, so i won't be murdering any children..