I was scanning the scores and Dapper Dan #34 got nuked like 30 times by some lowbie, who then deleted their country. I had that happen to me a couple of sets ago. I'm still a relative newb only having been back for about a month now after 20 year lay off. If you're near the top of the scores without GDI and/or without high SDI, you're sort of asking for it, which is fine. However, a person shouldn't be able to drop 30 nukes and then delete. Deleting your country early because you screwed up, no problem. Deleting after that sort of attack is lame and not in the spirit of the game. Such a person isn't playing to run the best country, get the highest score, or even to get into a war (which can be fun also). The whole point of these countries is to sell out at all costs to stockpile a massive amount of missiles and then ruin someone's game, and then deprive them the ability to retaliate.

Proposed rules tweak: You shouldn't be able to delete your country if, in the last 24 hours, you have performed one of the aggressive Spy Ops, Missile attacks, or special attacks. Basically the stuff blocked by GDI. If you do those attacks, you are open for retaliation. No deletion

No deletion is useless in that situation. The suicider has achieved what he/she wanted.

I strongly believe that the missile attacks are part of an elaborate scheme to increase panic, thus increase GDI subscriptions.

its to make players to buy sdi.

If you leave a country vulnerable then you take a risk. It is a game where the strong feed on the weak and being nuked to the 7 depths of hell falls under that banner.

.

I'm not arguing against GDI or someone's right to nuke someone. As I mentioned, dont leave yourself vulnerable.
I'm just saying, if you suicide, you forfeit the right to delete

Oh, it absolutely is. I forgot GDI once and got targeted by a country named "GDI Salesman of the Month". No kidding. -v

So a country with 1m nw is strong while 14m is weak. The game is filled with trolls, and I suspect it was an alt of someone who is trying to top 10, and cannot do it fairly. If I were too guess 34# will still top 10.

Lol at the country name

If they delete you dont have to waste turns defending yourself. I dont see how them deleting themselves is bad.

Just got AB to hell also for no reason. Why not just force GDI like tourney...

Yeah, I actually laughed when I saw who had destroyed my country. -v

red: if gets nuked from 40k acres to 10k acres or made parking lot then no point of continuing play on that set since can't get back to where was before attacks.

The 14mil country with 0 SDI has a big weakness. It was exploited by the 1 mil country. In a netting situation the 14mil country is stronger, but in a war situation it is not. Given the game allows for both netgaining and war approaches neither situation is 'right'. I don't get what has happened to this game - it seems that players don't actually want to carry the sort of defense so that there are fewer weaknesses in their countries. It used to be that if someone got nuked to blazers the answer was 'should have had more SDI'.

For the record this last reset I forgot GDI at the start and was fully expecting to be suicided. I maintained good SDI and kept my fingers crossed. Thankfully I got through unscathed and finished 4th. Had I been suicided it I'd have cursed myself for not joining GDI.

As much as getting suicided sucks - taking away the chance of it happening removes another part of the human element from the game. It is all 'just farm bots and don't dare touch a human' - basically the EE version of playing with yourself.

trumpoz has nailed it. 15 years ago if you'd come to the boards whining that you got suicided on because you were 'netting' and didn't have any defense you'd have been laughed off the boards. You'd have also been raped by anyone who could find your country. Remember the old saying, "All's fair in love and war"? At least we don't have to deal with multies (for the most part).

Congrats on 4th btw, trumpoz. -v

stop posting

the obvious answer is let self deleted countries be grabbed

dead countries can still be spied for tech and stuff already

maybe mod deleted countries shouldnt always be grabbable depending on what they were doing

but when you have a rule that you cant drop excess land exceeding an amount why are you then allowed to delete instead

actually on the subject of dropping land, you should be allowed to do it but for the purpose of being grabbed should be treated as still having it

100%. I'd go one step further, why not let *all* dead countries be grabbed.

Just cos a country is vacant of population, doesn't mean the land isn't there....

Im actually musing on something for express where a country's pop cannot go to 0..... basically a form of protection where the non-killed country can only attack and be attacked by the country that 'didnt kill' it and all DRs are reset. It makes killing a country far riskier as the country has the chance to turn around and flatten the attacker, but it also means the attacker has a target with minimal prodution and eith DRs gone potentially a great source of land and reward.

Of course killing is bad in solo servers. Even team killing should be bad.

There was a lot of talk years ago about banning killing completely on all servers which I thought could be problematic and qz/pang really liked but at least starting on solos would be good

For a long time in earth there was no min on pop killing so g's didn't stop at 5 but went to 0 at about 7 pop

But it was probably a bug since pop never grew back and I think you PCI died if you didn't change your tax

It would be better if only the countries that lost land to him be able to get the amount they lost, but it's all absurd anyways, if you died because of you broke GDI then you shouldn't be rewarded, how do you code that?

You dont get 'rewarded' KoH....... you basically become someone's landfarm for the rest of the reset and have a country with minimal production due to the population penalties. But, if the attacker doesnt protect him/herself properly, retribution could be coming forward....... Tanks/Troops/Turrets and SDI. Good players will protect themselves - morons who dont carry appropriate defense will get retribution.

The attacker gets rewarded with a personal landfarm but it has greater risk attached to it.

Yeah I understand that aspect, but I find it difficult to agree on the idea due to it opening a doorway for abuse, fine lines will be walked IMO

All the caveats are a minefield, and can be bikeshedded to death. Simple rules with complex outcomes.

Just let dead countries be attacked (yes even GS and BR still, just 0 civs killed) as well as spied, everything else is way too complicated.

That's an interesting idea, and conceptually valid. Huge departure from historical game play though.

There has to be some way that would be abusable

Like creating a landfarm in express with spy ops and chems

Although if anyone can farm there's no real difference to bots

I can't see killing and farming being true new netting Strat, perhaps a partial cost refund if pacts included terms to let land be taken back? And a possible policy dispute reason for wars?

Killing shouldn't be a thing on solo servers though

Maybe tourney problems worse since you can't restart there?

I think it *seems* like it could be abused on the face of it, but when you get to the practicality of it, its not worth it. I think essentially it is just keeping the land in the game.

For example hop over to 1a and there is that 178k dead guy in the t10. That's land that the server has now lost.

He rapes LaF, they have to kill him and then LaF can't get anything back that was farmed from them... if anything that seems like abuse!

Easy solution - only allow X number of attacks every X hour(s) if another player has not attacked you.

For example, if you have not been attacked more than once by another player, you can only perform 25 AB/GS/BR or 5 missile attacks every 2 hours. The attacked player would then be able to perform unlimited harmful ops, up to and including killing without restrictions.

Yes, 25 ABs or 5 nukes would still suck, but the potential for a griefer to ruin someone's set is minimized.

-v

P.s. not saying use these exact numbers ... they are just for example.

I don't like that method. That leaves no real way for an all jetter to be effectively dealt with without give them the first chance to kill you. Lots of idiots in express and they would use this in their favor. RoRs would be common practice because the other players knows that they are at a huge tactical advantage.

The all-jetter can ruin your country now the way it stands. They could not kill you in 25 attacks (using my example). They would also have a 'time out' period after attacking, which would give you time to retal and/or take defensive measures.

This wouldn't have any effect on ROR as it is not designed to limit SS or PS, only harmful attacks. It also is not intended to limit normal attacks between players but to effectively deal with the griefers that attack non-GDI top players and then delete their country. If they (using my example) were only allowed 25 harmful attacks every 2 hours, it would take approximately 12-14 hours to get the kill instead of the 10-15 minutes it can be done in now prior to the griefer deleting their country.

-v

I get that, but lets assume:
- you are grabbed by someone.
-you retal
-RoR occurs

At that point you either kill them or you become their farm for the set. With the proposed rules, you couldn't get rid of the problem. Instead, the worst that you could do is either farm them and watch the RoRs continue OR do harmful attacks and open yourself up to being killed when you weren't the aggressor in the first place.

Its flawed. There is no good fix to this. Higher defense is probably the best course of action.

No, you could still destroy them, because they have attacked you more than 1 time. They grabbed you. You retal. They ROR. They are now fair game and the 25 strikes within 2 hours would no longer limit you.

I agree though that higher defense is the best solution.

-v

Another more radical option.

Remove all special attacks (so SS and PS are the only attacks allowed)
Remove CM and NM
Remove GDI
Only Spy ops available:
Spy
Mil Spy
Demo

Demo and EM are there for a smaller country to retal a bigger country.

The GDI Salesman is back... but on a weekly quota. 😨

remove gdi = say hi to bottomfarming