when they farm and kill untaggeds for sport?

I was recently informed that my alliance needed to take responsibility for its farming of untaggeds. At least when EVO does it, there are clear goals and benefits in mind:

1) increases TNW
2) makes suiciders do less damage to us and our allies

EVO already makes its members take responsibility for landgrabbing: if a guy missiles you a few times after you farm it, oh well, suck it up. If you RoR six times and he ABs you, oh well, should have had more tanks or shouldn't have RoRed. If an untagged grabs us once, oh well, grabbing is part of the game. Except for extreme situations, we generally live and let live.

Compare this to other alliances who kill untaggeds for a single DH, for missiles in response to farming, or other nonsense. If you think landgrabs drive players away, what do you think kill runs do?

What about those tags that have already warred a few times this set but are still landgrabbing? They clearly aren't in contention for high networths. Why do they grab then? Because they're bored?

Someone explain this to me. Thanks.

meh i dont think you can say that someone shouldnt grab because they warred. But you can comment on kill runs :P

untagged all jetters are a threat to land - you'll never be able to get your land back from them if you have members in their attack range because of DR and people who camp out on databases to get land. It doesn't matter how many times you hit them for 40 acres.

So it doesn't surprise me that alliances willing to waste turns on kill runs kill them.

Oh shut up. This line trotted out by you and <insert LaF lackey here> every day is getting boring.

Dear dagga,

As one of those people who doesn't care about the consequences of his actions, this thread will indeed hold no value for you.

Personally, I don't think anyone deserves a free ride/free pass.

It just so happens that LaF/Evo happen to be two of the most prominent alliances in farming untaggeds, and a lot of folks think that despite this being an alliance server it's not good for player retention. I mean, let's drop the bullfluff here, it's standard practice in LaF (and I'm gonna put good money on it even being encouraged) to hit untagged countries daily 10+ times, with the only limitation being how far into DR's it is.

I know I have been threatened by 2 LaF members this set that if I take fair retals for their 10+ grabs/day I will be farmed and then killed. So far no other alliance besides LaF has made so much as a hit on me....so can't speak much to the rest.

But that's just the perspective of someone playing as an untagged country. I'm sure some sort of justification as to why it's my fault LaF is farming an untagged country endlessly will follow....

Please provide examples to back up your baseless claims. No alliance I see (that isn't retard imagnum) kills countries for 'sport'.

You might be referring to the untaggeds that run 100% jetters, just to grab to be annoying as innocent bystanders. They want to run an untagged country in Alliance server to be a hero (like Nukevil - what an awesome player that guy is!) they run the risk of being killed. It's a risk that player takes on. They are also not the type of player that leaves because they got killed. See Exhibit A Retard - Nukevil.

There is no evidence to back up your bullfluff, as usual, so until you start posting it, my original statement stands - shut up.

JT (#37) EVOdiez - 700+ hits on untaggeds
WaaazzzzzzUPPPPPP (#16) EVOdiez - 450+ hits on untaggeds
satan planted all of the fossils (#383) EVOdiez - 350+ hits on untaggeds

Most of your countries farm the crap out of untaggeds and you are sitting on your moral high horse?

Hey, hey, hey, now, there, dagga.

I did NOT run 100% jetter at all that reset!



I needed like 5 or 10 spies to get intel before I killed those countries.

It's the hero/retard part you need to pay attention to.

He might also be talking about the sol member who grabbed a na country 2 times, was retalled 2 times, then farmed said country 6 more times. He was abed to the ground clearly for roring

mmm-hmmm....and I wasn't playing in Evo (or any other netting alliance) that reset. Your point?

If you RoR six times and he ABs you, oh well, should have had more tanks or shouldn't have RoRed.

That definitely seems like a direct reference to SOL to me haha!

Who knows what he is talking about.

It's generic bullfluff, just like your last effort.

Jesus, you are the dumbest asshole on these boards.

Historical example of "killing countries for sport":

http://forums.joltonline.com/...-scientific-project-W.e.f

Examples of killing for sport this set: #875, #104, #660

Examples of farming for sport this set: pretty much any LG by a SOL country against an untagged

Don't forget #595...

#595 did five grabs in 48 hours, so you can make a decent argument for that.

Ahh, ok.

Please provide examples to back up your baseless claims. iMag doesn't waste turns killing untaggeds that have not bothered us. Bothering as in hitting us for 400a several times and losing that land plus some to LaF or Evo within 10 or so minutes. That is legitimate reasoning for us to kill the offender (Why should we feed LaF or Evo with free land?).

Also would like to point out that even if a country does do that, it's not 100% chance they will die. It's happened two or three times this set total. No kill runs were organized because the hits were on returning vets with no military. Suck it up.

at Slagpit. Thankyou. I 100% agree with your perspective on the game and farming.

Your dumb enough to farm someone its your fault. 1-3 hits is fine. But if they do retal. Accept the dam retals. If you go 4+ hits then accept the retals when they come, or even accept a missile and ABs up your ass if you did say 6 RoRs cause you clearly farmed the person

875 is a bad example. It's a going FR case between NA and SOL which I'm hoping to solve so far without result.

As far as looking at DSO's/ABs/Missiles/specialized attacks against tagged countries coming from untags. It has never been accepted ever. Not by any alliance why should tags accept that now because the player base is smaller?? That's rubbish. I'm not saying RoRing is the correct thing to do and members are actually punished for that in SOL in the form of medal stripping/demotion back to boot camp and many other forms of torture (making them listen to britney spears 24/7 in a sealed of room comes to mind) etc.

660 was a constant nuisance for us and various DPs on which we decided to take care of it (Like SOL always has for it's allies). Hell we've had shared killteams or done the killruns of our netting allies for a long time now.

104 did quite some nice Destructive spy ops on some SOL countries before we decided to kill him. They were never accepted by policy nor had those countries ever grabbed him.

Warring alliances get a free pass, cause we don't usually RoR that much... and warring us is something that most clans won't want to give us the pleasure of doing...

I'm not sure why NA lg's and LaF lg's after thier wars they weren't in the running anymore and therefore should be block exploring right?

Please. IMAG has killed a total of TWO untagged countries this set (one which was booted from ICN for being a total fluff.

#345 triple tapped IMAG. IMAG retalled twice, #345 then proceeds to AB the fluff out of IMAG country. More than acceptable reason to kill.

ICN's #159, get's tapped by IMAG and retals with a NM. IMAG grabs again, fair enough, the guy missile retalled. #159 AB's IMAG to buggery, gets kicked from ICN, and we kill.

Maybe you should look into killing for "sport" before you post stupid stuff.

Yet the all-jetters last reset top fed all of the alliances except for Evo. At the time the thinking was that Evo had sufficient defense (or at least what the leadership of Evo's pacts told their members to defuse the situation), but since you were running at least one of those all-jetters, it appears more like you were running those as an extension of Evo. The allies of Evo and pacted friends you top fed must not be happy at your revelations.

Was slagpit another Evo member running untagge all-jetter(s) (assuming this reset, since his all-x commie of last reset is public knowledge, and one would hope that a game admin was not running multis)?

Evo has had two (and soon to be three) consecutive ANW titles. I can not imagine your actions, and your incessant need to brag about those actions having a positive impact on Evo staying out of war to win a 4th.

I guess everyone should change except for SOL. SOL can farm untaggeds as much as they please, but how dare an untagged hit back with a special attack. That's a great policy.

I can't believe I'm being accused of running multies, is this the best argument you guys can come with? Should I argue the other side as well?

I did not topfeed a single alliance. In fact, the highest networth my countries (my original and my restart) obtained was like 220k. And that was late in the set, and that networth only lasted a day or so, before I dropped land/nw to kill a couple more countries. I wasn't even in a position to grab any netting alliances. And Slagpit's country was in Evo last reset, as it is this reset.

You seem to be attempting to generate questionable feelings between Evo and her allies/pacted interests, based off the fact you didn't read what I posted that reset (and probably wasn't even playing that reset), leading me to believe that your hatred of Evo is overriding basic logic. I suggest taking a break.

Oh. My. God.
I knew it Slag!

Slagpit, would you please clarify exactly who your original post is referring to?

The accusation you're making does not seem to apply to all "war clans" -- and there aren't so many in this game that it would be a huge burden to list the ones you are accusing.

I ask so that I don't waste time defending alliances whom you never intended to target with this post.

-Fooglmog
Guy with no clue.

Hhmmm not sure who me is.

But he's not a SOLer Slagpit. And as for the rest. Claiming slag runs multies is silly and stupid. It would go against all we as staff stand for and try to achieve in the runnings and workigns of EE.

Oh and Slag.

Apart from 875 neither of those untags were farmed by us. I see a few grabs but nothing above 4 - 5 over a big time period.

And yes SOL will simply not accept Destructive spy ops or special attacks on us. Has been like that for a LONG time now. And it used to be like that from all alliances.

LaF seems to be coming on in here a lot given that up until right now, not a single laffer has posted in here.

So because you have a purpose behind your farming of untagged countries, its okay to do so?

I have stopped grabbing in this game mainly because most untagged or unpacted targets have been farmed by either Evo or Laf, or both.

You would think as a game admin you would want to attract more players, not discourage them.

Frankly I have gotten tired of all the farming, whining on the boards about netting, etc that I may just give up this game and move onto something a lil more fun.

there is nothing but fluffin' all the time -

Let's get rid of GDI and form the Trickle-Down Acres Protection (TAP). Everyone will of course be required to join TAP, but it only costs you money if you're NOT inept. Every time someone grabs you your land is replenished from someone in the top ranks. Since you're probably playing a facism casher you'll need cash to build on those new acres, don't worry that's why we'll collect money from the top players to give to you. You're also entitled to public market stamps, but you can't buy oil with it. Oil is for meanies.

LoL Helmet!

:)

I bet you Helmet gives Great Helm..

The only reason I said "warring alliances" was because several netting alliances already get blamed for more of their share of farming and warring alliances are more likely to engage in farming after CFs because they war more often. I did not have Imag in mind, if that's what you were wondering.


It's interesting in that many people believe that farming untaggeds is wrong, but no one is willing to condemn farming out of boredom after wars are over. We also have a SOL leader posting in this thread, offended at the idea that SOL should change its policies because the game is smaller. Again, no one says anything.

So what are the real motivations here? Do people condemn farming by LaF and EVO because they want to grab the untaggeds themselves, like Ruth posted? Do they condemn farming by LaF and EVO because they feel like untaggeds steal hard earned explored acres from their alliance like Soviet does?

Encouraging members not to farm after wars seems like an easy step to take, but did anyone do it? For some reason alliances like SOL don't need to change their policies but netting alliances like EVO and LaF should. What gives people the right to demand that EVO and LaF members shouldn't compete at whatever level they see fit? Would warring alliances accept that?

I'll make the following argument:

Killing countries is bad for the game because it frustrates players to see all of their hard work go down the drain. Yet we have players in warring alliances who make hundreds upon hundreds of special attacks every reset.

-insert list of the "worst offenders" here dagga style-

It's also bad for the game because the poor netting alliances couldn't possibly compete with the warring alliances, right? So I propose that warrers only use half their turns for attacking and regaining readiness.

How many warring alliances would deliberately ignore their best path to victory and compete at a lower level?

Slagpit, I think the elephant in the room you are missing is this - you are a netting alliance. You have no say. :)

You guys are all retarded. I think you have all gone insane.
Both the netting people and the warring people.
These arguments are getting so annoying.

Netter should do this blah blah you are killing the game!
Warrers should not kill netters you are killing the game!
blah blah blah blah
fark lets all suck each other's fluffs and throw flowers at one another and fuken pay money for new players to come play!!

if untagged countries don't want to be farmed join a fuken alliance, if you don't want to go to war and net then protect your self, pact someone and move on...if you guys all followed eachother's advice what kind of a bullfluff game is this going to be

PS. Your last sentence shows your lack of understanding.

If your netting alliance keeps finding itself in war, change your FR Dept or change your policies or change tags to MONSTERS. Your 'best path to victory' might be to stop inflaming alliances that can kick your ass to billy-o.

I think you are still bitter over SOL nailing EVO at the end of E:2025. Build a bridge buddy.

^ agrees with serb

Actually, if you even bothered to look at your own stats, you would see that we and our allies crushed you and your allies (to the tune of your combined TNW being like 1% of ours) in E:2025's last reset. Just sayin.

Saying that, I also agree with serb. These threads, while they do give a point, are getting old. But hey! They're in-game political debate threads! That should make someone happy.

Slagpit, I believe that you fundamentally misunderstand the cause of the accusations being levelled against untagged farming conducted by netting alliances. The context in which you've written this post implies that what is the middle of an ongoing conversation is, in fact, the beginning. It is not.

The idea that untagged farming has been driving away players has been around for years, but has never been much more than a fringe complaint. The community as a whole rejected the complaint for the exact reason you say, everyone wants to compete at the highest level possible. This is fine, and reasonable.

However, since the first reset of EE (or, more specifically, since LaF was blind-sided in the first reset of EE) a small group of players strongly associated with "netting alliances" have been levelling accusations that the practices employed by "war alliances" are driving players away and ought be stopped.

This accusation may or may not be true (I believe it to have been a self-fulfilling prophecy in many ways) but the fact that it was originally voiced directly by players who had, for years, been amongst the worst perpetrators of untagged farming was not easily palatable. Despite the lack of main-stream complaints, untagged farming does drive players away. It was in direct response to these accusations that members of war alliances began to point out the hypocrisy present.

At first, I believe statements against untagged farming really were meant specifically to invalidate the idea that specific wars were bad, rather than be an argument against untagged farming. The statement was never meant to be "don't farm untags" it was closer to "practices with the potential to drive players away are also necessary to keep the game fun, therefore wars ought to be accepted for the same reasons as untagged farming is". Unfortunately, this quickly evolved. Netters continued to demonize wars and members of war alliances continued to draw an equivalency between those wars and untagged farming. This equivalency meant that both became demonized simultaneously.

It's been a tit-for-tat series of escalations all along.

As I said at the beginning of this post, you've implied that the middle of this argument was the beginning. The accusations (at least, in a main-stream sense) that netters are ruining the game by farming untagged players was not the beginning of this conversation... and the reasons why SoL has got a "free pass" on untagged farming can be traced back to this fact.

SoL has not complained about the deleterious effects of wars, so no one has bothered to bring up the issue of SoL's farming practices. There's nothing more sinister than that.

In the end, I think that your final statement has some validity. Expecting netters not to farm untagged players is very similar to expecting war alliances to only use half their turns during war time. But it is equally valid to say that expecting war alliances not to war is very similar to expecting netting alliances not to farm untaggeds. Since this latter statement is where this overall discussion actually began, it is the one that has a stronger bearing on the overall issue.

-Fooglmog
Guy with no clue.

I hate to tell you this but there was one set I had sof kill every single untagged in the game (except for a couple that contacted me directly who we gave a dnh to).
When we did that all the netting alliances were cheering us on including EVO and LaF.

Any more questions?:)

People were complaining about the war alliance tactics well before last reset Foog...

Conveniently, I made no reference to last reset H4xOr.

-Fooglmog
Guy with no clue.

people were complaining about earth related stuff for many years and will for many years to come:P

yep, same lame arguments. nobody agrees , i thought this was clear 10+ years ago =p