I would tend to agree with Ivan, if SOF would have had the exact same numbers as the ECM side I think SOF would probably have won it. Under the circumstances that you couldnt really have done any better. :)

Good fun for all though I hope!

Ivan,

"Numbers advantage - this won the war for ECM" - it had a large contribution, but was not the only deciding factor.

"FS killrates - imposible to wall during the FS/initial runs due to lag" True. But it was the same for both sides so was not a contributing factor to the outcome of the war.

"Target selection - killing finishers/midbreakers is fun and all but doesnt matter when all your breakers are dead and they would have been without the number advantage" - See below

"Nothing wrong with our strategy, dont need to keep 8m troops and 5m + turrets when all your breakers/midbreakers are dead"

SoF, for being such a good war alliance, were not able to counter the numbers advantage in any way shape or form, so something clearly IS wrong with your strategy. You did not adapt your country setups when you saw that ECM had a numbers advantage and did not either forsee or ignored that they could have the ability to outlast your breakers. That was another significant factor to the outcome of the war.

Running 10k tyr techer->farmer with massive SDI/SPAL/Missiles/Breaking power is great for a FS on an unsuspecting target, or a war where you will gain a significant advantage within a couple of days. Either your leaders didn't forsee that or thought that ECM would be a lot easier target than they were. A longer war obviously needs different planning, and that did not happen effectively enough in SoF. I'm not saying it would have changed the outcome but it definately contributed to that.

Is this why you guys wanted to be at a numbers disadvantage? So if you lost you had an excuse to fall back on? It's getting old. The fact of the matter is you guys put up a good fight, but there were ways to capitalize on certain aspects that you did not, and I obviously will not disclose them as it does me no good.

Having all those breakers made it challenging, but Londwell is right. You guys were unable to adapt and stuck with the same strategy you guys have used set after set.

As Murf said, he had a big country and was a breaker, but when his stock ran out and his production/expenses ratio was low, his country was very susceptible to be killed/maimed. Much better to wait until that point than to kill a huge, heavily stocked country that could absorb 1000+ hits.

We wanted a numbers disadvantage, because an even number war would have been horribly one-sided. The fact that we survived two weeks with an under-par peformance has amazed me.

I don't buy all this production thing, if we went half production and half what we did, the production people would have got killed or nuked fast first. If we did the so-called adaption we would been killed much faster imo. There is always a way to exploit the enemy, but we just left fewer exploitations than any other strategy would have. The only real thing I regret is us not switching to farmer 3-4 days earlier and getting everyone up to 12-13k acres with a mass explore.

If SoF stonewalled more things would have been different. The breakers that are scrwed up now are that way because all the other breakers died. Basically the more big guys around, the more the load can be shared. If EMC walled better this war would have been over sooner, so its swings and roundabouts. There was one point in the war where it looked like we could pull it off, but the virtually non-existant walling that weekend turned the war, but I wont criticise members for having busy real lifes.

I got on to wall but the lag was so bad that by the time I made it to the cash screen i was dead :P

yea last weekend fluffed us up good, had we stonewalled last weekend it would of been interesting

oh well i am sure i will die eventually

Strategies aside, my respect for SoF has increased infinitely.

For SoF to actually pre-arrange a 'gentleman's war and knowingly go into it with a numbers disadvantage is seriously bad ass. The eventual result of this war is irrelevant, SoF has won regardless in terms of respect and showing other large alliances how to move forward and co-exist.

Kudos SoF.

Thomas i had no problems keeping my military up and breaking, had plenty of bushel stock and lots and lots of none important tech to sell off to last to reset end.

And no we did not want the numbers disadvantage to be able to use it as an exuse. We wanted it to get us a challange cause on even numbers we would had crushed u, no fence but its true. However the numbers played out more then i thought cause of ur very high turnout on chats. Makes it hard to wall when i dish out so many attacks on such short time.

But props to u guys for bringing what we wanted, i guess we just bit off a bit too much to chew

You stinkin' SoFers and your walling. I had 4-5 days straight of chats where every target got on. *shakes fist*

Said with the utmost respect =p

lol fooboy

Although im a normal member of one of the alliances in the war, i would like to say a couple of neutral observations.

The ecm strategy of hitting mid up was really smart, and exploited and increased their huge numbers advantage and hence production advantage. good work thomas.

there was a time when ecm started hitting restarts and ab'ing, where if sof had not run up against a few breakers walling, wouldve changed the tide a bit.

if there was no deadweight and much more activity in sof, the numbers advantage would certainly have deteriorated, and it would be a much different situation.

great playing by ppl from both sides!

Flamey if one or two guys go to 16k+ acres sure they can be nuked down fast. But if half your alliance (or even 1/4) goes with that strat, there is a lack of nukes to go around. Furthermore, both sides went dict heavy, which seems to be necessary to do for the +25% mil in a prearranged war. The disadvantage of dict is way fewer readiness turns however, so the number of nukes being thrown around early on isn't really gonna be that much, especially when many readiness turns will be spent on chem rushes/straight chem kills in the first 48.

I would say the ECM production advantage was critical and was not overstated, especially because SoF was better at hitting quickly while not way oversending on KRs. Unfortunately for us, especially early on we couldn't trust many people to break quickly, so we might have multiple breakers on one target leading to way oversending at times and high troop loss. For a say 5M raw GS break, I'd bet our side lost 10M+ troops in one KR. I'm thinking the SoF losses on a similar target would be much lower.

I didn't realize last weekend was such a turning point (at least in your guys view), I was out of town then heh, I hope that's just a coincidence:P

hehe Bobby we had virtually 0 stonewalling last weekend and lost a lot of originals :(

As for the breaking, SoF have some pro breakers who can speedbreak to maximum efficency, then cease all hits to let the rest of the alliance pwn.

I for one am glad of this wake up call, as it shows we have some excess fat to burn off in the gym, gonna see a much more streamlined SoF in the next few sets while we weed out the inactives.

Great War so far

d20, forgive me if i misinterpreted, but you seem to be under the impression that our scattered ABs weren't well thought out. Our tactics were already putting a lot of economic pressures on their breakers. Doesn't it just make sense to reduce many of their countries' incomes to near-zero further amplify this strategy?

And yeah, Bobby, I agree about the production advantages. While weakening our standing for the start of the war, it's the whole reason we're able to continue to hit while some of the top sof countries are stuck in an unsustainable state. Hell, I had more cash and oil two days ago than I did at the start of the war :P

Overall, I think this is a great war. The outcome was definitely nowhere near certain, one side or the other. Kudos, SoF, for taking it so well ;p

Murf, it's not necessarily a "trim the fat" issue... you just gotta cattle-prod the weak links and show them what they should be doing. That's not necessarily an easy task when in a full-blown war- It's a lot easier to take care of during an "easy" war, or what-have-you. I seriously doubt you've literally got drooling mouthbreathers who send GSes by rolling their face on the keyboard... They can be taught, when leadership (or whomever) has the chance to.

trust me xaos I know the difference between trim fat and cattle-prod, this is a serious get your ass into a sweatsuit and jump in the sauna to cut weight before a big fight weighin in 24hrs lol.

Those who dont bother restarting have no place in SoF, those who don't ever hit despite restarting have no place in SoF

rofl, fair enough. And agreed, I've always had a negative feeling towards the folks who can't bring themselves to restart.

Not sure if it was mentioned but isnt sof going all one strat an inherent weakness? It kills the market for the strat they are going. Tech-farmer I think it was? Both sucked :P

Tech prices were low, but were still high enough to make more than a 15k Fasc farmer for most of the prepping time. Most of EMC went farmer too, which was terrible most of the war. It was only until bushel prices increased where the remaining production advantage took off and that was more down to total land rather than ave land.

1 SoFs 1 strat was fine, the reason tech was so low wasnt all on us it was due to 2 other tags war prepping early tech was low before SoF even started to tech they could have been better but they were good enough

2 Walling during the FS ie lag - Actually this helped ECM a lot more then it helped SoF but ill let londwell think about why himself or maybe thomas can explain it to him

3 High production countries - I dont see how this mattered much, most of your big land guys were taken out the first 3-4 days so they werent really able to outproduce us in the long run were

4 SoF at least we did not sure about now but for the most part of the war SoFs 100 members had a higher hitout put then EC's 98 members this along with far better target selection would have made this war rather loopsided, even a few days (3 or 4) ago SoFs TNW matched E+Cs tnw despite monsters helping EC so no i really dont see how targetting our inactives/middle people was a good strategy for ECM even now you your side is killing restarts because you lack breakers and you've been doing that for a lot longer then we have

Anyway this is moot, been a fun war things could have been done better on both sides for the most part im pretty happy with it, theres one person im really really dissappointed with but he will notice that in the close future :)

fluff

from my POV, anything couldve amplified the strategy. A ss wouldve destroyed production, same with br, and gs for cashers. all wouldve increased the nw and production gap between sof and ecm. doesnt mean it was the best choice. :P

maybe you did think that hitting restarts that early and those ab's were well thought out, but i dunno, certainly seemed to even out the war for a lot longer. :D

SoF is almighty. That better, Ivan?

poor Ivan :(

Why poor me?

I love getting attitude from a guy like Smikke, Where did your tag go again?

Really, attitude where??

Great war guys.

poor you Ivan because if we hadn't done those 3 spy ops before the war started, we would have lost.

it's a good thing you complained so much about them.

So lets do a sanct vs SoF next set? wed be happy to take on the challenge smikke

Also you really have no idea about anything, you didnt when you were leading your own tag and you sure dont now :)

Hey, you guys have somethings in common then!

IVAN BIG! IVAN STRONG! CRUSH KILL DESTROY THOSE WHO INSULT IVAN!

Im just tryin to figure out what yer deal is, you constantly come on here and try to bash me but you never seem to have a reason for it? other then being retarded but thats about the only reason I can come up with

lol@kyatoru

Read the thread smarty, it's not just me ;)

In this case it's because you were whining about a fun pre-arranged war (waah spy ops, waah numbers advantage) and then you make a post basically crediting the whole war effort to numbers advantage which just comes across as bitter and unwilling to acknowledge anything the other side does well (which was a lot of things) or any flaws with the SoF strat.

Why do I troll you in other cases? Because usually when you post it comes across as very stupid. Consistently.

Now that I think of it, part of it is because you come across as a 14 year old when you post. An immature 14 year old.

Well im sorry for posting facts instead of making things up?

If anyone on this board comes up as stupid consistently its you but hey its fixable im sure theres some tag around here that would take you in and teach you the basics of strategy and warring so you can actively participate when people who has a clue posts

booorriinnggg

You cry about 25% advantage but suggest outnumbering us by 200%

I don't even know what to say about this thread

u all need more fluff

fluff U MARTIAN!

How did you determine original countries tagged? I only count 5 guys from Sanct who didn't restart, but according to these numbers, there were 10?

well u guys did have 42 tagged on the day the war started

This thread is kinda starting to get out of hand.

So everyone watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/...J0CtY&feature=related

You'll feel better.