Retals/grabs too easy? - Earth Empires Forum

AxAlar

Member
565

Dec 19th 2010, 22:54:47

Anyone else think breaking on a grab / retal is too easy?

There's so much that helps you break a target, but nothing that really stops it (Planned Strike / 3 offense allies vs 2 defense)

Just seems like there's no longer "unbreakable" countries..

-AxA
Mercenary for Hire
AIM: I The Brandon
ICQ: 167324517
MSN:

gwagers

Member
1065

Dec 19th 2010, 23:01:27

That's not a bad thing, in my opinion. I hate being hit by someone I can't hit back, and in general a lack of unbreakable countries allows for greater land creation because most retals will be taken. Of course, it might deter grabbing instead (as countries will know that retaliation will come no matter what defense they have), but land creation wouldn't help the server as a whole if it was going into the pockets of a few large countries anyway.

Peloponnese (PEHL-oh-puh-NEES): a mythical land of cheesecake

"We cannot enter into alliance with neighboring princes until we are acquainted with their designs..."--Sun Tzu

Who has time for that? BLAST THEM ALL!

braden

Member
11,480

Dec 19th 2010, 23:09:35

yes, no matter how hard i try, the math should work that i can't beat you.

i love this game?

spawn

Member
1707

Dec 19th 2010, 23:43:58

i've seen quite a few failed grabs this set

/slap iZarcon

All your deleted countries are belong to me!

braden

Member
11,480

Dec 19th 2010, 23:50:03

yes, some of us forget to planned strike :P

TAN

Member
3241

Dec 20th 2010, 1:09:55

we should be able to purchase (or tech) "Mehul" tech, which increases...well...the Mehul factor on defends only.

FREEEEEDOM!!!

Pontius Pirate

Member

EE Patron
1907

Dec 20th 2010, 1:31:48

maybe it's because Ely folded, now everyone can retal ;)

Originally posted by Cerberus:

This guy is destroying the U.S. Dollars position as the preferred exchange for international trade. The Chinese Ruan is going to replace it soon, then the U.S. will not have control of the IMF

Ozzite

Member
2122

Dec 20th 2010, 1:43:07

Originally posted by TAN:

we should be able to purchase (or tech) "Mehul" tech, which increases...well...the Mehul factor on defends only.

Best tech suggestion ever

Ah, mercury. Sweetest of the transition metals.

AxAlar

Member
565

Dec 20th 2010, 2:28:57

LOL @ the two posts above me.

-AxA
Mercenary for Hire
AIM: I The Brandon
ICQ: 167324517
MSN:

BlackMamba

Member
185

Dec 20th 2010, 2:52:24

Maybe keep it from 0 to 5%. With the max Mehul tech level being 5%.

TAN

Member
3241

Dec 20th 2010, 3:45:00

Nah, make it up to 20% of the original break as max with like a 20% chance of failure.

For instance, let's say the break is 500k raw. You oversend a bit with 550k. There is now a 20% chance that your attack will fail.

However, if you oversend at 610k, then there is a 0% chance of failure.

The Mehul Factor should only include SS and PS, otherwise it will be too abusable in wars. This way it gives a boon to defending against lgs whilst not affecting wars.

It'll be a great way to protect higher-NW and landfat countries. Oversending by 20% to ensure a break against a high-NW country can be seriously expensive and would thus be a decent deterrent.

FREEEEEDOM!!!

Pain

Member
4849

Dec 20th 2010, 3:55:57

or if you dont like being retalled, dont grab?

Your mother is a nice woman

braden

Member
11,480

Dec 20th 2010, 4:09:24

as somebody who consistently has more land than he is able to defend (i blame math, yet i'm told its more discretion), just give us the third defense or a bonus to add 25% def for ten hours (something/anything to counter act the ps advantage)

i have no problem with being able to break, i have a problem with not being able to defend

TAN

Member
3241

Dec 20th 2010, 4:40:23

Originally posted by Pain:

or if you dont like being retalled, dont grab?

What about the all-explorers who don't want to be grabbed? Shouldn't they have the option to have a defensive boon?

I imagine Omega doing a market buyout on Mehul tech every set. :P

FREEEEEDOM!!!

Pain

Member
4849

Dec 20th 2010, 6:18:01

i do suppose youre right TAN. although being all explore exposes you to being grabbed far less then being retalled.

Your mother is a nice woman

spawn

Member
1707

Dec 20th 2010, 10:24:20

i also suggested a defence bonus already brandon :)

it could help untaggeds and in wars, which would be nice i guess

/slap iZarcon

All your deleted countries are belong to me!

Requiem

Member

EE Patron
9092

Dec 20th 2010, 14:40:34

This is how the game always has been (since I've been playing at least). The game by design has always favored the attacker. Thats why people say never to attack a clan who can retal, which is basically every clan with more than 5 members :p

It is sort of a catch, but I think it would be worse if we had a bunch of countries no one could break so I'd rather it be in the offensive favor than defensive.

Thats also why bottom feeding was such a good strategy. Lots of breaks with little chance of being retaled. Lots of chances of being sucided tho. Of course in this day n' age bottom feeding is virtually gone with not targets :s

Angel1

Member
837

Dec 20th 2010, 14:47:52

The real issue is not the inability to defend against grabs or retals, but the abuse of landgrabbing by certain alliances. It is quite unreasonable for one alliance to fill another alliance's retal board almost singlehandedly.

If alliances spread their grabbing out among several different alliances, then there would be no need to give major netgaining alliances some additional defense against LGs/Retals as both would be few and far between.

-Angel1

Requiem

Member

EE Patron
9092

Dec 20th 2010, 14:58:47

Originally posted by Angel1:

QFT. Also if you grab other alliances and on average lose more land than you gain you're just wasting your time!

Angel1

Member
837

Dec 20th 2010, 17:19:18

I don't control what other alliances do. Other alliances may tend to lose land when they LG. What I'm saying is that people would tend to shrug off a landgrab (with just a retal) if the alliance that LGed them is not plastered to their alliance's retal board.

Under circumstances where there are two lgs by one alliance on another in say a 48hr period and the lgs are limited throughout the set overall, then people will tend to be quite willing to create land with ghost acres and leave everyone in a more or less win-win situation.

Diversify targets to minimize escalation.

-Angel1

Marshal

Member
32,589

Dec 20th 2010, 20:15:46

Originally posted by Pontius Pirate:

maybe it's because Ely folded, now everyone can retal ;)

Ely's problem was that we got attacked by countries which were multiple times bigger than us and many times per day at worst and attackers had more def than each country getting farmed had nw.

Patience: Yep, I'm with ELK and Marshal.

ELKronos: Patty is more hairy.

Gallery: K at least I am to my expectations now.

LadyGrizz boobies is fine

NOW3P: Morwen is a much harsher mistress than boredom....

ponderer

Member
678

Dec 21st 2010, 1:09:52

I think the main problem is that the game and 1:1 retal policies reward you more for getting rid of mil after a grab than getting more defense to try and bounce the retal.

m0m0rific

oats

Member
648

Dec 21st 2010, 2:46:40

A dict with 1 mil jets, 150% weaps, 100% ally bonus, 10% attack bonus and a PS can break a basic Rep with 7.2 mil turrets.

Hehehehe

Requiem

Member

EE Patron
9092

Dec 21st 2010, 3:04:14

Originally posted by oats:

A dict with 1 mil jets, 150% weaps, 100% ally bonus, 10% attack bonus and a PS can break a basic Rep with 7.2 mil turrets.

Hehehehe

Now thats Fing crazy! HAHA

Alicia

Member
289

Dec 21st 2010, 5:34:11

Originally posted by oats:

A dict with 1 mil jets, 150% weaps, 100% ally bonus, 10% attack bonus and a PS can break a basic Rep with 7.2 mil turrets.

Hehehehe

No, it wouldn't! :) For only having 1 mil jets, a country with those stats can break a lot, though.

The Omega
http://omega.earth-alliance.org

Soviet

Member
991

Dec 21st 2010, 6:18:42

Originally posted by oats:

A dict with 1 mil jets, 150% weaps, 100% ally bonus, 10% attack bonus and a PS can break a basic Rep with 7.2 mil turrets.

Hehehehe

I only came out for 4.1m raw. Still a fluffton of offense.

Imaginary Numbers
http://www.letskillstuff.org

oats

Member
648

Dec 21st 2010, 6:40:22

Why wouldn't it Alicia? Do allies contribute at most 75% to offense? I can't remember the attack bonus (and I can't login yet) for declaring war so I'm not even considering that!

jets * govt bonus * weaps * ally * attack bonus * PS
1,000,000 * 1.25 * 1.5 * 2 * 1.1 * 1.5
= 6.2 mil jets equiv

rep
turrets * govt bonus
=7.2*.85
= 6.12 mil turrets equiv

Alicia

Member
289

Dec 21st 2010, 9:43:24

Nah, it is because Rep is only -10%, and you didn't include any oversend (which p much cancels out the repness) :D

I swear I remember rep being -15% at some point, too, but I think it was a long time ago lol

The Omega
http://omega.earth-alliance.org

Marshal

Member
32,589

Dec 21st 2010, 21:28:47

ally-bonus is 25% but you can't get more allies than you have so if you have 1m jets you get 333333k jets from each ally so your forces + allies forces would be 2m.

your forces w/o allies on ps would be nearly 3.1m and you would get 1m from allies so 4.1m.

ponderer

Member
678

Dec 21st 2010, 21:50:21

Dict with 1 million jets, full offensive allies, 150% weapons tech, and using the level 1 attack bonus hits a rep with no defensive allies or weapons tech.

Without oversend, the rep needs almost 6mil turret units to hold.

1mil(jets)*1.75(max off allies)*1.25(dict bonus)*1.5(weapons tech)*1.1(attack bonus or war dec)*1.5(PS)*1.1(rep penalty) = 5,955,468.75 jet/turret units.

Letting the Mehul factor cancel out the rep penalty (both at 10%), the rep still needs almost 5.5 mil turret units to hold.

1mil(jets)*1.75(max off allies)*1.25(dict bonus)*1.5(weapons tech)*1.1(attack bonus or war dec)*1.5(PS) = 5,414,062.5 jet/turret units.

m0m0rific

Marshal

Member
32,589

Dec 21st 2010, 22:15:41

you have 1m so you get 1m from allies so if you have 3 you get 333333k from each, you can't go over doubling your forces with allies.

your forces + govt bonus + weap tech + 10% attack bonus + ps-bonus (+ war dec 10%) + allies military (1m in this case).

http://forums.earthempires.com/...is-o-ally-strength-calc-d

simple: you have 1m you get 1m from ally/allies.

Joker

Member
46

May 7th 2011, 22:59:02

why does it always seem like I can NEVER get any offensive allies? is it just me? lol

Kill4Free

Member
3146

May 7th 2011, 23:11:19

edit: I thought I had a saved attack showing this, but can no longer find it.

Edited By: Kill4Free on May 7th 2011, 23:14:06
See Original Post

So many ways to die, only one way to live...
NBK

Kill4Free

Member
3146

May 7th 2011, 23:11:19

I think that more ghost acres would make everyone happy!

Edited By: Kill4Free on May 7th 2011, 23:14:14
See Original Post

So many ways to die, only one way to live...
NBK

Detmer

Member
4246

May 7th 2011, 23:15:08

Originally posted by TAN:

Originally posted by Pain:

or if you dont like being retalled, dont grab?

What about the all-explorers who don't want to be grabbed? Shouldn't they have the option to have a defensive boon?

I imagine Omega doing a market buyout on Mehul tech every set. :P

If you don't want to be grabbed you should have more defense on the amount of land you have. This might mean letting people get more acres than you.

SolidSnake

Member
867

May 7th 2011, 23:56:43

Meh i've ran unbreakable countries quite a few times on ee, but everyone moans about not being able to retal and topfeeds my clan mates because they cant retal me.

Devestation

Member
812

May 8th 2011, 0:21:12

Sounds like AxAlar is pissed because someone managed to retal him. o:)

Reckless

Member
1190

May 8th 2011, 19:45:43

Alicia makes honry

deepcode

Member
309

May 8th 2011, 22:16:51

Isn't the maximum ally support dependent on the mil strength and not on actual military?

a non-rep, with no mods doing an SS with 1mil jets can only get a max of 1mil jets support.

But:
a dict, 1.5% weaps, 1mil jets, PS.

1.25 * 1.5 * 1mil * 1.5 = 2,812,500

Max ally support 2,812,500 (double your own) for a total power of 5.6mil jets/turrets equiv. ???

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

May 9th 2011, 5:44:55

Originally posted by deepcode:

This is correct; Allies totalling 11.25M jets are required in this case.

Finally did the signature thing.