For or against inter-clan farming

ZIP

Member
3222

Dec 16th 2010, 18:47:24

just want to see who is for it, and who is not

not

fluff your 300 Spartans fool - i have 32 of the biggest fluffed mother fluffers made of titanium !!
A brigade from Blackstreetboyz (#91) has invaded your lands! Your defenses held against the invaders and forced them away! Your military lost:1 Troops

gwagers

Member
1065

Dec 16th 2010, 18:48:24

Not, if only because I wouldn't want to take part in it. It sounds like a CS rebuilding nightmare.

Peloponnese (PEHL-oh-puh-NEES): a mythical land of cheesecake

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Who has time for that? BLAST THEM ALL!

Pang

Administrator
Game Development
5731

Dec 16th 2010, 19:01:45

shouldn't it be "intra-clan farming"?

I'm against it as well.

-=Pang=-
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Pain

Member
4849

Dec 16th 2010, 19:03:13

Originally posted by Pang:

shouldn't it be "intra-clan farming"?

I'm against it as well.

nice ninja edit.

fleshlights are close to the real thing though. :P

Your mother is a nice woman

ponderer

Member
678

Dec 16th 2010, 19:08:06

I wouldn't take part in it, but I have nothing against it.

m0m0rific

Galandy

Member
463

Dec 16th 2010, 19:12:55

Why does it matter? If both consent it should matter if you do or do not.

Its not against the rules so who is it hurting? Alliance is meant to have people there for you if you need them and for protection.

Does this really matter at all?

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<Galandy>move to canada ZEN everyone else does
<[FBI]ZEN> And breed with a Quebecian
<[FBI]ZEN> To make the ultimate snob/migrant worker

locket

Member
6176

Dec 16th 2010, 19:19:23

whats the point of it galandy? It is an artifical finish if you do it. You weren't able to get that land without someone specifically running a country for you to hit it with so why do you deserve to beat the people who can get 170mill+ networth only using the tag protection your alliance gives you and the def. allies and such.

ponderer

Member
678

Dec 16th 2010, 19:22:15

locket: and the land you farm off of members of your alliance who "decide to stop playing" half way through the set.

And you deserve to get beat because you're using individual tactics in an alliance server.

m0m0rific

locket

Member
6176

Dec 16th 2010, 19:23:28

I dont do that. In fact laf always detags countries and lets it be a ffa for whomever gets the land.

You deserve to get beat because your are clearly not a netter.

ZIP

Member
3222

Dec 16th 2010, 19:25:48

The reason i am against it is it will taint the finish.

so do we make a new category - end NW for intrA- clan farmers?

you can't compare finishes.

ponderer

Member
678

Dec 16th 2010, 19:26:46

Originally posted by locket:

I dont do that. In fact laf always detags countries and lets it be a ffa for whomever gets the land.

You deserve to get beat because your are clearly not a netter.

Then beat me : )

btw, how did that LaF country hit 90mil nw last set in a month? Did it have anything to do with that late set buyout?

m0m0rific

Soviet

Member
991

Dec 16th 2010, 19:26:55

How is this different from farming untaggeds vs all-x?

Imaginary Numbers
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Helmet

Member
1341

Dec 16th 2010, 19:30:30

Well, you have to look at it in the extreme. If everyone starts doing it that would be annoying IMO. I'd imagine if that started happened the admins would make game adjustments to discourage it.

Maybe increasing ghost acres and reducing dr would help the land problem in the game? Players that get grabbed wouldn't lose much and there would be more land avaiable. I imagine it would take some trial and error.

It would have to be done in a way that would discourage this land trading though. Maybe you can't attack people in your own tag? Of course friends in different alliances could land trade, but that would cause more politcal problems I'm sure.

Netgainers get so mad when they're grabbed if their biggest loss was military instead of land it wouldn't be so frustrating. This game is pretty extreme on the damage compared to other games, which is why emotions run so high. A game like mafia wars you can fight like crazy and pretty much no damage is done to you (polar opposite).

Of course I wouldn't want to reduce the effectiveness of special attacks. That would suck.

Alin is a cheater.

http://i1090.photobucket.com/...ainoftse/alincheating.png

Pang

Administrator
Game Development
5731

Dec 16th 2010, 19:48:34

Originally posted by ponderer:

Originally posted by locket:

I dont do that. In fact laf always detags countries and lets it be a ffa for whomever gets the land.

You deserve to get beat because your are clearly not a netter.

Then beat me : )

btw, how did that LaF country hit 90mil nw last set in a month? Did it have anything to do with that late set buyout?

No, he did not do anything with the buyout at all. He's just a very skilled player.

He also sent over $1.5b in cash to Evo as reps for an FA situation that he was not part of. Probably the 2 largest single FA packages in Alliance history. I'm sure FFA has had bigger ones though :p

People always rag on LaF's players, but there are tons of nice, altruistic folks... and this player was one of the first to step up and offer to pay reps when we needed to get them organized. The ONLY reason we were able to effectively pay for the damage caused was because of his efforts :)

and yes, Pain, I decided that my original post wasn't all that appropriate, so I edited it :)

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qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Dec 16th 2010, 19:51:15

Hmmm ghost acres already decrease continually if you land trade, so I'm not sure this tactic is as good as it sounds... but then maybe it is... maybe we need to make ghost acres die faster with land trading?

Finally did the signature thing.

Flamey

Member
895

Dec 16th 2010, 19:52:43

It wouldn't be a hard fix to have people unable to hit anyone in their alliance and putting a x-hour block on people joining another alliance after detagging.

Means the only landtraining will be between diff alliances. Dunno how you can discourage further abuse, but then again its up to other alliances to do something about it if they don't like it.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Dec 16th 2010, 19:53:10

Yea that LaF guy did a good job considering all LaF went through last set; I wouldn't be surprised if a few people lucked in with the buyout, but I don't think it would have been necessary with the market last set... late set markets are always better for growth than early markets... and if people can get $200M in 2mos why not $90 in one?

Finally did the signature thing.

Helmet

Member
1341

Dec 16th 2010, 19:57:48

Originally posted by qzjul:

I didn't realize their was a ghost acres DR(I assume it's decreasing at a higher rate than the regular acres?).

You could make it drop off even stronger I or you could even add something like increasing CS loss from land trading, which would really discourage it.

Edited By: Helmet on Dec 16th 2010, 19:59:56
See Original Post

Alin is a cheater.

http://i1090.photobucket.com/...ainoftse/alincheating.png

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Dec 16th 2010, 20:01:42

well the way it works atm is basically that...

you know how DR gets cancelled if you make an attack? that's kindof the premise behind land trading anyway...

but we made it so that the DR for ghost acres goes down at the normal rate but doesn't get cancelled for an attack out... so even going back and forth it continues to drop, so after a few hits you aren't really getting many ghost acres...

Finally did the signature thing.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Dec 16th 2010, 20:15:55

I guess it's still better than exploring in many cases though... assuming your military losses aren't excessive

Finally did the signature thing.

ponderer

Member
678

Dec 16th 2010, 20:20:39

Originally posted by qzjul:

You could make it so there is a second, steeper layer of DR for SS and PS - multiple hits by a specific country on another. Maybe have the specific country DR only run out with time rather than actions of the hitee.

m0m0rific

Pang

Administrator
Game Development
5731

Dec 16th 2010, 20:21:03

I think that landtrading/ghost acre DR and intra-clan farming are two different issues, qz...

if someone runs a country in your tag because they don't have time to play a serious country and says everyone can farm it, you're basically creating a private land resource for your tag

land trading implies you'll be hit back, but the farming assumes that you will NOT be hit back

at least that is what I took away from ZIP's post... was that an incorrect assumption? :p

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Helmet

Member
1341

Dec 16th 2010, 20:24:23

Originally posted by ponderer:

Originally posted by qzjul:

That's kind of the route I was thinking, or like I said increasing loss of cs for exchanges back and forth between 2 countries.

Alin is a cheater.

http://i1090.photobucket.com/...ainoftse/alincheating.png

SakitSaPuwit

Member
1109

Dec 16th 2010, 20:24:51

Ya'zll are funny!

but what do i know?
I only play this game for fun!

locket

Member
6176

Dec 16th 2010, 20:34:20

An anti-DR helmet? Like first hit you lose X % of CS's and then it increases with each hit and only goes down after 72 hours or somesuch?

But yes not being able to landgrab people in your tag and not being able to retag for 24 hours might help if this becomes and issue. Someone mentioned that up above.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Dec 16th 2010, 21:04:22

Hmn with just farming somebody that went inactive... if they actually went inactive it wouldn't be a permanent source, just a temp one... I don't reallly have anything against that

but if you are doing all-x around the mass-X point in your tag while people farm you... yea that might be pushing it a little far...

Finally did the signature thing.

Helmet

Member
1341

Dec 16th 2010, 21:05:07

Originally posted by locket:

An anti-DR helmet? Like first hit you lose X % of CS's and then it increases with each hit and only goes down after 72 hours or somesuch?

Yeah, something like that. I'm just throwing out ideas.

Edited By: qzjul on Dec 16th 2010, 21:14:09
See Original Post

Alin is a cheater.

http://i1090.photobucket.com/...ainoftse/alincheating.png

Steeps

Member
392

Dec 16th 2010, 21:45:53

I retal any clanmate that hits me.

ZIP

Member
3222

Dec 16th 2010, 21:57:53

Originally posted by Pang:

yup farming a clan mate and not getting hit back.

I hit other clans knowing that i will get hit back, but i hope that i take more then i lose don't we all //

llaar

Member
11,279

Dec 16th 2010, 22:02:44

Alliances should be able to do whatever they want with their countries.

However, if what they do affects another clan(s) then those clan(s) can deal with it how they see fit.

Dibs Ludicrous

Member
6702

Dec 16th 2010, 22:38:18

don't like the way another clan plays amongst themselves, declare war and detah them.

oh, and justify your righteous decision by doing alot of posturing and name calling on the forums.

Edited By: Dibs Ludicrous on Dec 16th 2010, 22:41:53
See Original Post

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Rockman

Member
3388

Dec 17th 2010, 2:21:36

If you gain any land from alliancemates, then you give up the right to grab any other alliance.

If you do gain land from alliancemates and then grab another alliance, in my opinion, the retalling alliance should be entitled to get all off its land back off anyone they want to in the grabbing alliance.

Pain

Member
4849

Dec 17th 2010, 2:27:37

Rockman please explain to me how that statement makes even the slightest bit of sense.

Your mother is a nice woman

Chewi

Member
867

Dec 17th 2010, 3:21:42

Originally posted by ponderer:

Originally posted by locket:

I dont do that. In fact laf always detags countries and lets it be a ffa for whomever gets the land.

You deserve to get beat because your are clearly not a netter.

Then beat me : )

btw, how did that LaF country hit 90mil nw last set in a month? Did it have anything to do with that late set buyout?

I saw the oil market selling in large volumes at a time it shouldn't have been, so I also bought oil. I guess it worked out nicely.

enshula

Member

EE Patron
2510

Dec 17th 2010, 5:40:34

grabbing was also fairly good for restarts at that point, probably due to a large amount of untagged hiding from wars

Silent Sentinel

Member
325

Dec 17th 2010, 10:39:12

Not for the idea, but it's better than other options.

aponic

Member
1879

Dec 17th 2010, 13:15:01

Land trading doesnt really bother me. Having a country in your tag that everyone simply farms would really piss me off. I think that is where I draw the line.

SOF
Cerevisi

Tertius

Member

EE Patron
1490

Dec 17th 2010, 16:42:14

I'm against organized land-trading whether it is inter or intra alliance.

It was my understanding that ghost acres were re-introduced to help encourage grabbing because of the skill and dynamics it added to the game. Having two players tell each other how much to send over and over again to get "free" acres does not add to the game. I think most players who currently grab would not be interested in this.

As far as game changes to help reduce this... I think they would have to be pretty drastic. Early set, at 6k acres or so, if you're making 300+ ghost acres per grab, making even 2 land trades puts you at or ahead of just about every other grabber (whether they're bottom/mid/top feeding).

Thinking about CS loss: if you're making 300+ acres for a two turn attack (assuming non-tyranny) then the CS loss would have to be significant as each attack is ~18x more efficient than exploring.

enshula

Member

EE Patron
2510

Dec 17th 2010, 17:10:48

ive done it in ffa and its very efficient

in ffa it was impossible to pact out and topfeeding was sort of accepted, maybe not if i was netting in LaE i guess so once you got to a certain size the retals were too much of a hassle

~30-40k

but in 1a apart from the coordination problems between two players it would be much easier

it is one of those things that takes the game out of the game though

and any must do strat with a high entry barrier is a bad choice imo

locket

Member
6176

Dec 17th 2010, 19:09:44

So aponic might i infer by your statement that you are pissed at RD? ;)

gwagers

Member
1065

Dec 17th 2010, 21:07:28

Originally posted by Helmet:

It would have to be done in a way that would discourage this land trading though. Maybe you can't attack people in your own tag?

Sorry to bring this up again, but this caught my eye because of some retaliation policies I know of. Some clans run retal teams that are expected to return the land they take to the clanmate that lost it. This kind of block would make that impossible.

Perhaps, though, clans could form two tags and separate their retal teams from their main netters?

Marshal

Member
32,589

Dec 17th 2010, 21:10:55

pelo: then pact terms etc would need to change since so far only 1 tag for alliance has been accepted, no 2 tags for same alliance (outside rd of course).

Patience: Yep, I'm with ELK and Marshal.

ELKronos: Patty is more hairy.

Gallery: K at least I am to my expectations now.

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cypress

Member
1481

Dec 17th 2010, 23:31:59

Ahh, I smell a fluff-stirrer

Rockman

Member
3388

Dec 18th 2010, 7:56:10

Originally posted by Pain:

Rockman please explain to me how that statement makes even the slightest bit of sense.

If you gain land from alliancemates, then you have an unfair advantage over other countries. Give a techer free land at the start of the set, and his economy will now allow him to get enough defense to bounce retals, when without the donation from his alliance, he would be breakable.

Therefore, any hit he makes on another alliance should entitle his target to retaliate on anyone from the alliance that hit him, rather than having to hit back on the specific country that hit him.

aponic

Member
1879

Dec 18th 2010, 12:58:13

Tertius: I don't care at all TBH.

SOF
Cerevisi

Tertius

Member

EE Patron
1490

Dec 18th 2010, 13:33:56

aponic: uh, is that supposed to be in response to someone else?

cypress

Member
1481

Dec 18th 2010, 14:48:42

Probably to locket

Ron

Member
102

Dec 18th 2010, 19:09:53

i will rank intra-clan farming the same as having a fren run an untagged landfarm for u to farm without retalling.. (or even two-stepping other alliances)
it's not really 'fair' but wat can we do about it...?

I mean the thing is, if the netter can actually find a fren to run a country for his benefit, there's basically no way u can stop them right?
the fren could run an untagged landfarm, could AB the crap out of the netter's competitors, could FA him, could give him offensive/defensive allies, could let him leech tech... the list just goes on..

It's like u go for job interview and ur competitor got the job just becoz she's hotter, or he knows one of the bosses there.. that's how things work in life I suppose..

Disclaimer: I have been running all-x for as long as I could rem

Jelly

Member
277

Dec 18th 2010, 23:06:51

It's better then some alliance that runs untags to top feed other alliances and NOT retal their home alliance.

Usually within MINUTES of feeding off other alliances, their home alliance has members to farm them.

I won't point out which alliance.

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Pain

Member
4849

Dec 19th 2010, 0:30:05

Originally posted by Rockman:

Originally posted by Pain:

Rockman please explain to me how that statement makes even the slightest bit of sense.

thats a retarded scenario but instead of explaining why ill ask you another question.

would you have an issue if a country in an alliance is FAed military by 3-4 of his clanmates. without the self farming that is.

Your mother is a nice woman