Holy fluff, it seems like hawkeyee grasped something a lot of others dont.

Do you not grasp that the whole religion was targeted for extinction by the Nazi's (rhetorical obviously)? Do you not understand that mass genocide of your people makes you a little paranoid that people are out to get you? Does that not make you want to be able to protect yourself? They aren't looking for a fight, they're looking to avoid the mass genocide Iran has outspokenly been supportive of.

Pretty sure that we are still the biggest symbol of freedom, liberty and tolerance in the world. Pretty sure that still means a lot to most Americans. Pretty sure that's why we'd want to fight for anyone else who wants to obstruct on those core values.

I'm not saying we're the perfect example of such values - we've had our screw ups in the past and still have some inequalities now, but if you ask people around the world what country most stands for those values, or where people would go to live in a cultures with those values, they'd say America more than any other place. The belief in those values is what makes us want to back up Israel, at least its what makes me want to back up Israel. And I'm a democrat.

democrat = republican.

That's not paranoia. People really are out to get them. Especially when a country who's leaders declare that Israel must be whiped off the map starts to develop nuclear bombs. And to answer a Chaoswind's question "who where the aggressors in the 6 day war?", that was Nasser.

Im pretty sure China has been stocking bushels

Guess we need to make sure have get a good FS

figure for the past 5000 years how many people have came to conquer and have Isreal, and them jews are still there, I'll bet on them figuring out how to survive this crisis too.

FS FTW

the following is a nice site full of quotes from the Knesset (israeli parliament.) it only backs it up. Israel as a country didn't even START existing again until the british arbitrarily created the country again at the end of WW2.
Given that, don't you think it woul dhave been a GOOD ideal for Israel to talk to their neighbouring countries and try and make a peace? Something along the lines of "look, we've been dumped with us, we're happy to try and live peacefully with you all,go hate on the british for it..."
http://monabaker.com/quotes.htm

Next, (and I might get seen as anti semitic for this) but the Jews have been getting evicted for nigh on 2000 freakin years!
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/expelled.htm

given that they KEEP GETTING KICKED OUT, there must be something about THEM! how many times do you need to be kicked out of a country before you start thinking maybe YOU an not everyone else is wrong?

Further,

also don't assume that just because the US has a technological and naval advantage that they will win. Germany had exactly that when they went after Russia in WW2, as well as air and armoured superiority over the russians and still lost and got driven back.

There Neighbors weren't countries either untill the British and French arbitrarily created the countries again at the end of WW2.

So how is Isreal any different from its neighbors?

Um britian didnt create it the UN did britian controlled the region up until 1947 then threw their hands up because they were tired of dealing with it and gave all the land to the united nations to deal with. a brief history lesson

The UN duly appointed a commission of inquiry, the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP), whose majority in September recommended to the General Assembly that Palestine be partitioned into two states, one Jewish, the other Arab. Jerusalem and Bethlehem, both having sites holy to Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, were earmarked for international rule. The General Assembly proceeded to reduce the size of the recommended Jewish state to 55 percent of Palestine (the Arabs were to get close to 45 percent) and voted for partition: 33 in favor (including all of Western Europe, the United States, the Soviet bloc, and most of Latin America), 13 against (mostly Arab and Muslim or partly Muslim countries), and 10 abstentions (including Britain and China).

The Zionist leadership and mainstream parties, though not the right-wing Revisionist movement, accepted the division, despite Zionism's original quest for sovereignty over the whole Land of Israel; David Ben-Gurion, the chairman of the Jewish Agency Executive (the Yishuv's "government"), and Chaim Weizmann, Zionism's most prominent statesman, bowed to the diktat of history and circumstance.

The Arab world, spearheaded by Palestine's Arab leadership, responded with a resounding "no"—as they had in 1937, when the British Peel Commission had recommended that only 17 percent of Palestine be awarded for Jewish statehood, and most of the remainder for Arab sovereignty.

The United Nations General Assembly passed the partition resolution (No. 181) on November 29, 1947, and Palestinian Arabs, in disorganized and dispersed fashion, launched hostilities to stymie the carrying out of the resolution.

On November 30, Arab gunmen, in the first shots of the war, ambushed two Jewish buses near Petah Tikva, killing seven passengers, and snipers firing from the Arab town of Jaffa hit pedestrians in neighboring Tel Aviv. The Husseini-led Arab Higher Committee (AHC), the Palestinian Arabs' "government," called a general strike. The civil war had begun.

not true. Iran had been there all along, Iraq was compressed out of a few countries(badly). Jordan had still been there, oh wait, Israel invaded there too. After the expel list, check the bottom for all the sanctions Israel have picked up for invading all and sundry around them constantly.

Also, what did the US do to justify the Israeli strike on their research ship in 1967?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

but hey, the Israelis are REALLY NICE GUYS...

Palestine would of had their own state at the same time Israel was created if they would of excepted it. Instead it was decided by the Arabs to wipe Israel from the map.

Change the name of Jordan to Palestine and move them all there. Jordan is already a huge percent Palestinian. Problem solved.

Dude, it was Jordan who annexed West bank, in 1948. West Bank was part of the proposed "Palestine" state that the arabs refused. (They were welcomed as liberators, by the way, not invaders)

Israel entered West Bank during 6 day war, but that's because Jordan attacked Israel. Despite Prime Minister Levi Eshkol sending a message to King Hussein saying Israel would not attack Jordan unless he initiated hostilities. He initiated the hostilities.

The UN, the brits, the whomevers, Ottomons, Mongols, Egypt, Shia's

still my point the arabs have not had their own control of the land as a country for a thousand years.
Think Egypt did have about an 8 year period of controlling it within the last 800 years.
Regardless there has never been a Palestine, and when there could have been they didn't want it.
Like any land he whom holds owns it.

Death to Israel. Nuff said.

The Russians had more planes and tanks and the best tanks. The Germans actually had the numbers advantage in terms of deployed troops at the start of the war. And I guess their air force was better than the USSR's.

*common misconceptions in history*

We would not be trying to conquer China, as Germany was doing in Russia, it would be a war of containment and attrition which is much easier than conquering and occupying. Also having every man women and child that could point and shoot a gun fighting off the Germans is tough to over come. We would not have to deal with that in a war of containment. The ocean on the right side and the tallest mountain range in the world on its left would also help keep China contained.

Try containing their nukes when they're en route to the US of A. I guess neither mountain ranges nor the big, bad oceans can contain those nukes. Whoopsies. Total Nuclear Annihilation. End of the world, here we come!

/me waits for his pie in the sky

Here's an interesting suggestion. I'm no fan of Obama and would certainly not want to give him any undeserved credit. However, if I were a president about to quite firmly look the other way when the CIA decided to engage in some shenanigans (say with the Israelis over Iran), then I might want to seem completely opposed to a military strike in Iran.

Again, not to give Obama undeserved credit, but what are the chances that the CIA might choose to help the Israelis attack Iran's nuclear capabilities? I grant you that the CIA may only do it to help make an inevitable attack more successful and therefore be a whole lot better for the overall strategy to contain Iran. However, it's still a significant possibility that the Israelis may have active US (perhaps covert, perhaps not) support to launch such a mission. Hell, the US might even refuel the Israeli jets on their way home (just to make sure they actually get home and don't create any other diplomatic headaches *in the language that might be used to justify it*).

You are right if it becomes a nuclear war then all bets are off. I wonder though if China is that radical to start the end of the world as we know it. I really don't think war with China is something we would have to worry about. But that's just my opinion who really knows.

That's called nuclear deterrence and that's the reason why WW3 didn't happen. Yet. But that works between countries with rational leaders and people like Ahmadinejad or Kim Jong Il don't fit that description. Not sure about Kim Jong Un, too early to tell and frankly I'm not eager to see what's he gonna do if he gets a nuclear toy to play with.

weeeeeeeeeee i sure am happy to live in Canada :)

Don't be TOO happy! If North Korea or China, not to mention Russia get any ideas you'll be first to know....

mark when did i become a jew? im athiest for christ's sake ;)

China produces about 97% of rare earth metals and has 37% of global reserves. China is the world’s largest producer of antimony, graphite, tungsten, and zinc. Other major minerals are aluminum, bauxite, coal, petroleum, diamonds, gold, iron ore, lead, magnetite, manganese, mercury, molybdenum, natural gas, tin, uranium, and vanadium.

Glad to see that AT hasn't changed, and no one knows anything about geopolitics still. If Israel attacks, it won't be for moral reasons or for defense. It'll be to remain the sole nuclear hegemon in the region. It really is that simple.

You don't consider Pakistan and India part of that region?

:P Comment withdrawn ;)

Israel has no choice but to remain the sole nuclear hegemon in the region, at least when it comes to Iran, because there is no indication that Iran is a rational actor that would abide by deterrence theory.

That is nice and all but the US has tonz of all that too and more importantly it has lots of regions where we grow a food surplus. I realize China has stores of food and oil ect but all of that could be destroyed with bombs. I am not saying anything would be fast- i think it would take about 5-10 years to starve out them. I do think that is the strat that would be used. Contain them with ocean and mountain range, destroy food, energy reserves, manufacturing, and other vital infrastructure. As long as the fight stayed conventional and no one else got involved the US wins in 10 years hands down. Reason- They do not have the ability to reach us in conventional ways to do any real harm to our infrastructure. The USA can be self sustaining. We are nearly the only 1st world country that can be. I know we choose not to but we could be.

Knowing the cost of a USA/China war i think and hope it never happens. For sure no good could come of it. If it happened i for sure see china also attacking Russia, if only for the bread basket it contains. Lots of food there.

uhh australia has the second greatest percentage of rare earth metqals after china. but you understand that they are used to make mobile phones, ipads, laptops etc right? if 97% of it is controlled by CHINA, what do tyou think will happen to all the technological goodies you are used to?

lol They don't control 97% of all earths rare metals. China has 97% of the kinds of rare metals.

Where do you think china gets lumber and cement from? How about Steel? Ya, thats right the USA sends them raw materials and they make cheap crap we then buy. We need to have export tariffs and import tariffs.

This is a list of countries by steel production from 2007 to 2010, based on data provided by the World Steel Association.[1][2][3]
Crude steel production (million tonnes): Rank Country/Region 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011
— World 1,351.3 1326.5 1,219.7 1,413.6 1,490.1
1 China People's Republic of China 494.9 500.3 573.6 626.7 683.3
2 Japan Japan 120.2 118.7 87.5 109.6 107.6
3 United States United States 98.1 91.4 58.2 80.6 86.2

World Cement production in 2010e:
Rank Country/Region mil Tonnes
1 People's Republic of China 1,800
2 India 290
3 Iran 74
4 United States 63.5

China does not have the forests and cannot produce as much food as the US. Also, it does not have oil fields like we do as well as other energy sources. If you are too dumb to understand that you are mental. Think- they limit the number of babys their people can have because they cannot sustain their current levels. The USA is resource rich and can still grow.

How about food tdyoung D-bagg?

World Top Ten Timber Producing Countries
Country (CU M)
USA 481,092,992
India 296,234,016
China 284,910,024

china makes more than enough lumber for itself. It is known that the US wastes much more resources per person. For example, we throw books, magazines, newspaper,etc... on a daily basis. Other countries don't have that luxury. We can all have a house with 2 car garage and a vehicle per person while all those are luxuries most people don't have.

And please don't say well i don't have blah! that's only cause you're a dead beat that can't get a decent job. go to school!

china definitely export more food
this is for rice
they definitely export the most soy amongst other agricultural product. The US just make more corn and beef i think.
Bar Graph Pie Chart Map Correlations

Showing latest available data.
Rank Countries Amount
# 1 China: 118,000 thousand metric tons
# 2 India: 89,000 thousand metric tons
# 3 Indonesia: 33,300 thousand metric tons
# 4 Bangladesh: 26,000 thousand metric tons
# 5 Vietnam: 21,000 thousand metric tons
# 6 Thailand: 17,800 thousand metric tons

From: Deerhunter
To: tduong
Subject: No Subject
Date: Mar 7th, 02:21
Message Body:
China does not have the forests and cannot produce as much food as the US. Also, it does not have oil fields like we do as well as other energy sources. If you are too dumb to understand that you are mental. Think- they limit the number of babys their people can have because they cannot sustain their current levels. The USA is resource rich and can still grow.



To Deerhunter:
you an ignorant dumbass. China far out-produce the US as far as agricultural production. They are #1 in natural resource production in the world by a wide margin. They do have plenty of oil fields but they used less oil. China currently produce about 5% of the world's oil. The US produces 9% but we use far more oil. China industrial boom had just started so they are using nowhere near the oil we do. I think the US accounts for 1/4 of the world's oil consumption. Now china is consumption is about starting to surpass its oil production.

The population control is common sense. I don't think we need to discuss that. People used to have many kids because of war, disease, and income. More kids means, more will survive, and more income into the family. That belief is not necessary anymore and they are starting to educate people. It's not that they're running out of food, it's that overpopulation will cause more medical problems amongst other things. The world is starting to work together because we are realizing that the earth is not going to be able to sustain itself due to human pollution. We can produce the food but our wastes are not decaying fast enough and our pollution is not clearing fast enough. It has always been a survival thing, now it's more of the big picture.

I think last i checked our oil reserves will only last 5 years with our current use. That is if we buy oil from no one and just use our reserves.


I'm not chinese or like the chinese government. But your ignorance is astounding.

Wow. You guys are so clueless it's not even funny. It will never come down to winner/loser in an Israel v Iran war. The concept of either country "winning" is laughable.

Very similar to a conflict between the US and China. We can sit here and debate who would win by what division (ground, sea, air, missle)

When it's time for war between Iran and Israel, whether or not it includes larger superpowers, there will be one clear and precise winner. Skynet.

there are no winners as long as both sides have nuclear weapons.

Lmao. This discussion with DH is hilarious...

DH: US would totally beat China. China doesn't have raw materials, lumber, steel, food, water, oil, or woman.

AT: Actually, China has access to 97% of the rare earth metals and produces about a third of such metals.

DH: Well fine. But they still don't have lumber, steel, food, water, oil, women, or Steve Jobs

AT: Actually, China is the world's number one producer of steel.

DH: Yeah.. Well what about all the lumber and cement that they need to build stuff? Where do you think they get THAT from?

AT: Actually, China is the world's number one producer of cement. And number three producer of lumber.

DH: Well okay. But what about food? They can't EAT the lumber, can they?

AT: Actually, China is the world's top exporter of several different food sources. Of those item that they don't export, they certainly produce enough of it to sustain there population.

DH:... to be continued

ROFL DH you are such a fool

thank you for the summary lol

Didn't the chinese buy volvo and jaguar? lol
it's ironic because as soon as they did, those 2 brands actually started making better cars.

The chinese is actually going to start exporting their domestic vehicles world wide in a few years.

India bought Jaguar, but a lot is made in the UK as far as I know.

Btw follow up article on an Iranian response: http://www.bbc.co.uk/...orld-middle-east-17261265

Might be good for some Americans to get a different perspective of the situation.