I remember it very well RAF heh.

I recall the last straw being when kya came asking for a pact (yet again) and I told him I would grant it if exist would vs a few of our countries with outstanding retals (from other alliances) into dr.

Those were the days.

I really thought that was a reasonable offer too heh

Did I not just state a few posts ago that the answer to that question is no? You simply stating "yes" doesn't prove me wrong. I'm confident I'm more aware of our decision process than you are.

You also have a vested interest in blaming this on your allies to try and recover some face. Just because you say something doesn't mean you told the truth for once.

Perhaps FR contact would have informed you of all the areas you were wrong in Detmer. But you are PDM...you can't be wrong... you are the only victim right? As I said before. Let Balin be your voice and people wont hate you anymore.

As point out several times - your FR started ignoring me. You were the one who stopped doing FR work - not me.

Also, the only people who hate me are you because I foiled your plans (which isn't fair to say because it is WE... largely including Balin as well). LaF=political fail

The truth for once? ROFL that is too funny...

If you expect to get anywhere by calling me a liar, it is just going to blow up in your face...

I'm the guy that always tells the truth, regardless of how detrimental the truth may be (most recent example: my admittance earlier on this thread re: knowing about the RD strike beforehand).

I'm the guy that answers "yes" when asked "are you guys planning to FS us?" (assuming we are actually planning to FS).

Being too honest has always been my biggest vice in earth leadership, and numerous FAs/leaders around this game can attest to this fact. Mr. Lime, who never really liked me much until the day he asked me if we were going to FS citidel, and I said "yes", which in turn lead to them merging into MD and costing us our war... aka to our detriment. Even TAN could attest to this (if he doesn't let partisanship get in his way). I told him straight up that LaF was planning to FS PDM back when SS was Don (he asked, I told). He then spent a while trying to convince me not to do it, because PDM wanted to FS someone else (SoF or SOL, can't remember which) -- this was during the reset that SOL and SoF planned to kill the entire server, and TAN was upset that we were "playing into their plan" by hitting PDM instead of letting PDM hit them. That was the same reset we FSed Evo early, tag killed them, and then they went on to win TNW and ANW cause everyone else died late in the round and they breezed through.


So in summary: Good luck with trying to paint me as a liar though.

Yeah that offer might have worked. If we hadn't killed some suciders for and gotten nothing for it. you implied a pact and we got something like a 1 week dnh.

The ebst part of that whole thing was IX hitting eXist, followed Arrow hitting IX.

Detmer I am not in LaF.

yeah we failed politically on this one for sure *thumbs up*

How exactly did you foil our plans? *scratches head*
I guess before you answer that you should first answer: what exactly do you believe our plans were?

Seems to me that everything is moving pretty smoothly right now, based on what our ACTUAL plans were for the reset.

Fine.

"You would not have farmed PDM without us justifiably killing hanlong's country since you wouldn't have felt you had an acceptable exuse."

Semantics.

I wouldn't say it was just the killing of Hanlong, it was everything that lead up it as well.

I was screaming on the heads boards that we should be FSing PDM (and getting support from plenty of other leaders as well) before you guys killed hanlong.

Killing him definitely didn't help matters though.

like i posted on LaF's forum i already said i wanted to retire after this reset. theorkinman being a total flaming n00b just made me want to quit before the reset is even over. he alone didn't drive me away from this game, he merely accelerated it, like what h4 said earlier.

it's the lameness of the politics of this server that made me realize i was wasting my time in this game.

i'll give you full disclosure of my thoughts this reset. there's not going to be any AT spin to this. if there's anything good or bad that comes out of it, it's your guys problem to clean it up, not mine, so i don't need to hide anything.

for my time in LaF this reset i was the head FA. my job obviously is to sign pacts and try to resolve FA problems. i also thought i could make a difference and try to point this game back in the right direction for all of us.

PDM grabbed 2 of our members first this reset. detmer sent me a message that it was a mistake. i didn't really care or was bothered by it, and told our members to retal, which they did.

mid-reset LaF started to grab everyone who i did not pact this reset. the reason why i did not pact everyone this reset (like what pang did last reset) was there was literally no land last reset. plus if you pact everyone the only way to landgrab is to grab the same 5 untagged countries hundreds of times, which everyone agrees to being detrimental for the server by driving away new players. i figured some landtrading would be beneficial to LaF members and to the health of this game. i did not know they were going to abuse the hell out of various alliances and try to "overwhelm" their retal policy like what PDM mentioned. PDM was not the only one hit this reset, so that's the first part i'm pissed about. despite me saying this 100x, you guys seem to make it out like we were targetting PDM this reset on purpose or some fluff when you know it wasn't true.

this is strike one for alliance server politics, the narrow focus of using selective facts that many people like to make to twist/spin the truth instead of disclosing the full picture. detmer earlier in this thread as well as theorkinman keep on trying to convince the server that LaF was out to get PDM solely this reset.

anyways after that event happened i put LaF into yellow alert knowing that we probably ticked 5 alliances in a span of 2 days.

my second step was to set them all to DNH because i did not want to escalate anything. being overwhelmed FA wise because of those incidents, i had to take a blanket systematic approach to all alliances and then find out their individual concerns.

third step was to notify that they were on DNH and i wanted a pact and asked for their concerns.
ICN just didn't want to get overwhelmed like this ever again. i apologized to them and we signed a pact and i told them our desire to make landtrading work with strict rules on hits per day and maybe a country opt-out clause for those who don't want to participate so these things like what just happened don't happen again. when i was talking to ICN and they knew about our DNH to them, no hits were exchanged between ICN/LaF except for retals.

sanct were just interested in getting their land back for the short term goal of war with SoF and not really caring about long term land trading strategies, we brokered a deal where they got to farm land back from a low defense leader of LaF instead of hitting those hard to break top 10 countries. when i was talking to sanct and they knew about our DNH to them, no hits were exchanged between Sanct/LaF except for retals.

like those alliances i told detmer PDM was on DNH and i offered them a pact for the reset. detmer messaged me with his concern about us always doing this to them, for which i apologized to and i told him i wasn't around during those times so i can't say anything about the past. he didn't like the cycle in which he said LaF always farmed PDM and then asked for a DNH to netgain scott free. my response to him was a multi reset pact so things like this won't happen again.

detmer again turned me down.

unlike other alliances though, the DNH between LaF/PDM was one way. there were hits exchanged from PDM->LaF that weren't retals such as nukes (which for the sake of argument in regards to PDM because of their policy they could be considered retals), harmful spy ops (likewise), but also fresh topfeeds from PDM to our all-explores who never even touched PDM this reset. i didn't care as much for the nukes/ops retal on countries who abused PDM in the first place (because they were the agressors) but the grabbing (and harmful spy ops) of countries who never even touched PDM was what started to make things deteriorate.

the first day that this happened, i told him "what are you doing with that topfeed? let's sign a pact and get this over with"

detmer again didn't agree to this.

the second time it happened, i told him "doesn't seem like you want the pact at all"

to which he responded "consider yourselves will retal".

at this point, i brought up the possibility of war or a farm strike to the LaF council and set us to red alert. we couldn't come to a consensus on the council so we didn't do any actions.

during this time, the harmful spy ops and nukes and topfeeds continued on LaF while we had a one way DNH set on them.

the only mistake to this rule was retaling the wrong country (#594 instead of #449). to that which PDM responded by killing #36 without any FA contact.

there's only one reason why you will kill countries without telling the FA first. PDM could've cleared up with me first and i would've easily agreed to let #594 get his land back from #36 and we'd do our proper retals of close to 30-50 unprovoked harmful spy ops (on top of the 3 unprovoked topfeeds) by #449.

but obviously PDM did not want to take the peaceful options. you notice the recurring trend, every step of the way i offered PDM the olive branch but PDM chose to escalate instead.

strike two for the server's politics. this whole mess i attribute to the fact that we all like to use different retal policies to the point where its a fluffing headache and no one can agree to anything and can't make any logical sense out of everything. i look at the other servers like FFA and the old 1A where our retal policies were mostly similar and tbh the game was much more fun because of it. we have enough legalese irl, why bring it to a game? its like the red tape you get from a bloated corrupt government, fluff you don't need is stuck all over the place.

at this point we had only three options left. farm PDM for the acres back, kill them by FS, or do nothing. you can't possibility tell LaF to sit there and do nothing about this. none of your alliances will do the same, so stop pretending that it was even an option for LaF. you guys have to understand at that point with PDM killing a LaF country without any sort of FA contact that it was an act of war (not like unprovoked harmful spy ops and nuke retals weren't good enough reasons already).

during this time i noticed that RD switched all their governments to tyrannies and dictators. from my best knowledge of their pacts, it seemed like PDM was a very likely target.

this threw a curveball to LaF's plans. and i looked thru all 4 of them and they were lose-lose-lose and lose. this is when i told the council that i wanted to retire because there's no reason why defending your own alliance's sovereign rights should produce 3 results that will unleash the scorn of the whole community. this to me means there's something fundamentally wrong with the political climate of the alliance server and that's why i knew it wasn't worth playing in unless it changes for the better.

1) tell RD to back the fluff off and FS PDM.

this is what would've happened: we look like bullies on AT and we would piss off RD who was prepping to war PDM the whole reset. pissing off 40 or so war prepped countries already stored turns and ready to go off means we probably volunteered to be PDM's replacement and would end up fighting two alliances and be outnumbered.

i know after reading this, this is probably what PDM and anti-LaF people want LaF to do. because LaF getting spanked is what everyone wants right? and i get to be called the worst FA/leader for pissing off two alliances by my crappy actions.

2) tell RD we want to joint FS with them on PDM

if you think what we are facing now is bad in terms of conspiracy theory, what will you think will happen if we do this?

3) farm PDM and hope RD FSes someone else

this is what we ended up doing.

i knew there was no way out except for to do nothing so we don't look like "colossal fags", and instead look like "colossal pansies". honestly from the anti-LaF camp, you are suggesting we just wave the white flag to PDM and back down, because that would've been the only option.

this is the strike three and the final straw.

as an alliance leader, i refuse to play in a server were the politics force you to not defend your alliance for the sake of keeping other people not want to make up conspiracy theories or flame the hell out of you.

this is what h4 was referring to when "game politics" is the reason why i'm leaving.

But having Hanlong relentlessly farm us was a nice way to have "provocation" after the kill, to push yours and RDs agenda forward...

Lots of folks with deductive brains can see this

Ohh wait, especially with the revelation that he was gunna retire/quit anyway.

L2Read n00b. i just made a post saying i'm leaving BECAUSE of the crappy options brought forth to me because of how crappy this server's politics is.

you should ask your alliance leader to sign the pacts and at least attempt to broker peace next time if you really care so much. especially when the other side was very willing to make a fair deal and have shown to do so and even made posts on AT indicating proof of other similar deals he did with other alliances.

at least if you tried and got shot down, then you can go off about your fluffing lame conspiracy theories. otherwise stfu and stop making this game worse than it already is.

and i'm sorry for not being civil with my choice of words now. i don't need to sugar coat anything for you guys because of the stupidity of you flaming homos

I'm actually a flaming hetero

And not to mention your "pacts" are always the same..we'll farm you silly and then ask for DNH..so we are left hanging with no chance of retal..
You said you were leaving..so do it, Mr.Inadequate.. Is That a LaF color?

L2Read again. i already addressed this issue. see the part where i told you about LaF's reasoning for pacting this reset, how I wasn't around for the past that you are mentioning so i have zero clue on what the fluff you are talking about.

keep on making yourself look dumber by the second

i dont think mr. inadequate is a proper color, but mr. flaming rainbow should be the color for you.

So you were not in Laf before?

i was in LaF since 1998.

when i retired PDM and LaF were like LDPs and friends. how the fluff would i know about LaF farming the fluff out of PDM and then offering them DNH over and over again?

i didn't even know what jolt was or did i ever play on earth council.

the last time i played it was still 1A on swirve.

You just came back this set?

no i came back the SOL war reset because h4/pang asked me to help out. i created my country the day the war started.

the next reset (last reset) we had a uNAP between LaF/PDM.

like i said like one gazillion times. this is the first fluffing time i even knew of LaF farming PDM and then DNH-ing them to pretend to have peace. dont you guys ever listen? sheesh

Well if you were in LaF last set,you were a part of the same "farm'em,fluff'em,kiss'em policy and kinna makes you a liar.

wtf?

we didn't even grab PDM last reset.

we had a fluffing uNAP. we had a fluffing uNAP to every single fluffing alliance in the game without 1 exception.

how is pacting literally every single alliance on the server a "farm'em,fluff'em,kiss'em policy"?

who the fluff are we farming exactly?

i already wrote that in my long post, and it also proves that you are epic fail at reading comprehension skills.

my fluffing god

your attempt at spinning this is proving my point how people try to spin untruths just to hold on to their fluffing pathetic conspiracy theories, which i also addressed (see strike 1)

True



I said that was fine if we got our land back, or destroyed it, so things would be equitable.

You would never address any sort of repayment.





Again, you never addressed my desire of repayment and just wanted to pact. I am sorry that you were not around recently to help abuse us, but LaF still had a history of that stunt and we were not letting LaF get off again.




hanlong did message me three times or something when we grabbed them... Here is more how it went down since his quoting me are not true quotes. Telling LaF we no longer had them on DNH was a separate message for fairness since I was done containing my guys against LaF who was hitting us through their "DNH"

Here are true logs

From: Detmer
To: hanlong
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Are we friends?
Date: Feb 19th, 05:13
Message Body:
You are right - two of them (#449) are retals. You are of course welcome to retal and as noted before #449 has been violating pacts all round. If he grabs you again you're welcome to farm and kill him. As for the other hits though...

From: hanlong
To: Detmer
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Are we friends?
Date: Feb 17th, 22:24
Message Body:
i set you to DNH right now, but you want to sign a pact so we can make this official?



Feb 18/11 2:27:16 AM SS old golden age (#598) (LaF) If U Cant Beat Em Tank Em (#241) (Paradigm) 320 A (+355 A)
Feb 18/11 2:20:48 AM PS ashes to ashes (#443) (LaF) T34 FTW (#359) (Paradigm) 453 A (+480 A)

----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
huh? i set you on DNH on the 18th game time according to the boxcar records.

Feb 18/11 10:15:18 AM PS The untouchables (#610) (LaF) Dont tanks me (#449) (Paradigm) 1215 A (+452 A)

is the only hit i see after that time, and that's a retal.

can you explain to me what hits you are talking about? i hope we are still able to retal ;)

----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
I appreciate that you are being reasonable however your members have hit us four times since we were set to DNH. Unless your next message assures me that everything will be repaid to us then we're just going to take it as you guys as a whole don't actually give a fluff about us and we'll just go back to the status quo of a year and a half ago... I don't mean to give you an ultimatum but honestly we're getting raped and I have no choice but to put my foot down for my members.

----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
i set you to DNH right now, but you want to sign a pact so we can make this official?

----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
Yeah, this whole stunt has caused MUCH bad blood between us in the past.

http://www.eestats.com/...;badside[]=LaF&page=1

First one is a guy who has been grabbing regardless of ally status and we have been dealing with. Second one I contacted you about since the guy made a mistake. After that it is a flood of grabs from you guys.

What is our status in your embassy?

I am on IRC now but I'll be in and out of my office as I have a ton of work to get done. #pdm irc.earthtools.ca

----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
I didn't know the "theos farming us and then jump" was a recurring problem between LaF/PDM, but I wasn't around when that happened probably.

I actually took the liberty to ask them why they are aggressively grabbing PDM, and they told me they thought PDM grabbed LaF first twice early on this reset so they thought land exchanges were allowed.

I told them to back off, and I apologize for what's happening. I'm a bit upset that they would do stuff like this without running through me first, I for one don't like members undermining my overall agenda.

But we should talk and iron out any solutions.

----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
We had you guys as allies. We always sort of considered that more important than signing a pact. If that is not the case we'll happily recover/destroy our land and then consider signing terms to avoid long-term conflict. I thought we were past the point of you guys trying to have theos farm us and then jump but apparently I was wrong.



----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
do we have a pact actually? i think pang signed a 2 reset term and it expired.

but i do think the grabs are stupid, let's work a pact out to put an end to this madness =)

----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
Or do you want to be?

It seems you guys have started grabbing us.


And since previous posts got replied to, here is another vein of the correspondence.

From: Detmer
To: hanlong
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Are we friends?
Date: Feb 18th, 02:17
Message Body:
We grabbed you twice and the second time I contacted you asking for only L:L (as our pact terms had been higher) since it the guy posted acknowledging he made a mistake. That is very unlike the mass farming that you guys have put on us. If we even up here then I am happy to sign a long-term auto-renew pact that exists until actively terminated.

The first person has been grabbing tons of allies and I would say yes, is undermining what I am doing but since it is only one person it is easy to leave him out to dry for everyone.

----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
then the answer is a long term pact no?

not a one or two reset pact. i'm assuming you listed us free for grabs because we received two unprovoked too. i'm pretty sure it was not set on ur side also, unless they were undermining you also ;P

----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
How are they undermining your agenda if you had us listed as free for grabs? We still have you listed as friends but honestly I don't know if we want to formalize things if the result is just you guys doing your early techer grab and jump and getting away with it, again. If our guys can get our land back, or if you aren't going to be unhappy if we destroy the land, then we'd be happy to formalize an equitable relationship. We're just tired of being screwed over by this very same tactic. Had we been aware we had to watch out for you guys we could have prepared for it like we used to.

----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
i set you to DNH right now, but you want to sign a pact so we can make this official?



We wanted peace and would have gladly accepted a pact if hanlong would have ever offered reps or acres or simple revenge. Instead I got offers for pacts and a few messages showing us grabbing LaF (of course I got no acknowledgment of LaF grabbing us).

I am sorry if hanlong truly feels he got screwed here in some way but all we wanted was equitable peace, not the standard raped peace.

Ok, i'll stand corrected on that one..., but if you have been gone so long as to not know that only 2 alliances gives a smashed rats ass for yall,you been gone too long(2=Rd and yourselfs)

detmer: you were the only guy who i didn't talk with on IRC/ICQ. we did this strictly by insite messages.

i don't know why you weren't on ICQ at all.

the speed of IRC/ICQ would've resolved it much quicker, ala what happened with sanct/icn.

instead with the slow ass pace of private messages, it allowed the window of opportunity for both sides to escalate the matter.

i must have forced conspiracy with you detmer in creating a slower than normal messaging mechanism to open the door for escalated tensions to fulfill the master plan!

despite the slow speed of insite messages, you could've done the same and put a temporary DNH like what i did while it gets resolved.

why am i going to offer you land reps when you guys are continuing to top feed us after each fluffing message? that's why i showed you the hits while i ask asking for peace. after 3 times i was tired of dealing with you

the more you try to pin this down as collusion the more farfetched it gets.. unless you guys were conspiring with us to fluff yourself over in acres.

which makes just as little sense.

honestly i like you detmer.

i suggest you reconsider some of your techniques used during our negotiation process. i didn't find you unreasonable at all, like i mentioned elsewhere (and to LaF leaders on the LaF council forum) i found your lack of action to be the problem. i can even show you the LaF private forum posts which i indicated this fact.

and you are right that i wasn't keen on paying you guys back with reps in the end. in the beginning that was what i was trying to suggest but you were too slow and your guys were topfeeding us while it happened (unlike with Sanct), so that's why i took that option off the table. i hope you can understand that.

i do think you have to agree that the fact that #449 was adding fuel to the fire made it worse. imo you guys should've booted him and killed him off, that would've probably moved the relations back the right direction again if that's what you were really interested in (plus he was grabbing all sorts of alliances and being an overall pisser so it would've served your alliance's bests interests anyways).

but all of this would've been easily communicated if we used IRC/ICQ instead of back and forth insite messages that often take up to 24 hours to comprehend (and by that point was outdated because more fluff went down).

And yet we got continually raped thru your DNH?

Get real..or get stronger leadership...

I've said it in this thread 3 times now, but i'll say it again, LaF farming the whole of pdm indescriminantly is an appropiate responce for PDM's retal policy. PDM's retal policy is contrarty to 10 years of accepted retal policies, if you want to make it a server standard, you'll have to fight for it, because there is no reason for other alliances to accept it, seeing as it's painfuly stupid policy and reguardless of what you claim, it does not open up grabbing.

LaF clearly had a problem with your policy, they took action with reguards to it. You just said your self LaF should declare war on you. Is farming you not essentially the same? They didnt fs you conventionally, but they set a time and date where members could all start farming you at will. You're suggesting that they are wrong for farming and at the same time saying that they should have fs'd you? you're contradicting your self detmer.

And you say i cant see logic...

No..we were farmed in collusion..Laf took the low road with prior knowledge of an impending FS.......Those are periods

wtf are you talking about. you topfed us through your DNH. we retaled those hits. even detmer realized that #449 was hitting us throughout the temporary dnh while we were trying to sort it out. read his messages that he posted.

a better question is who the hell ran #449? if you want to pin down who's to blame here you should look at him first..

why is he hellbent in creating fluffty relations between LaF/PDM?

if you really want to get to the bottom of this instead of flinging baseless accusations without any evidence, you should look at the trail, and it starts and ends with #449

maybe #449 is some guy you guys recruited recently that played in another alliance and is pushing another alliance's agenda?

maybe #449 is your a PDM vet who is still bitter about LaF and want LaF/PDM relation to heat up?

answer that question first

So i guess we all forgot LaF said "we fluffed up" and retalled the wrong country...Hell if you are that incompetent you may as well quit.

i was just trying to be nice. i apologize for trying to take the high road. and flufftards like you make me regret ever bothering to do that

we should've farmed the fluff out of you guys the second you used harmful spy ops and missile retals instead of trying diplomacy.

its your alliance's incompetent retal policies and insistence of using nuke retals and especially spy ops as retals (that makes it easier to make mistakes) that got you guys killed and farmed.

my "incompetence" was the result of your alliance's dumbass retal policies that was built for failure.

You never tagkilled us. And the only reason we "breezed" through was because SoF wasn't willing to fight us and asked us for a ceasefire 2 days after we FSed them. I'm not sure why you even decided to being the stuff about EVO up in a thread focusing on PDM, RD, and LaF.




*shrugs* Since *someone* decided to bring up Evo where he had no business bringing up Evo:

Evolution has done this multiple times in its history. We call it 'preserving our netting reset'. You don't hear us complaining about farming and being retalled with missiles on AT very often. When we find out we've farmed someone too heavily, we don't say "well, our policy is right, and your policy doesn't matter; in fact, your policy doesn't even exist to us because your policy is WRONG'. We don't go blindly believing that our retal policy will somehow protect us from whatever someone decides to throw at us.

We strive to work with other alliances, and sometimes even other COUNTRIES, to make concessions that make both parties happy. We don't go retalling someone else's 'retals' because our policy dictates that we can. That's what threatens to get us in war, and we don't want that during a netting reset. Most of the time, we have to back down so our members can continue to net peacefully and obtain our ANW crown every reset. Sure, some of our members will complain that we didn't stand up to someone when we should have, but they soon realize the wisdom of Evo not throwing our weight around...

Our policy is written in English..

your policy is written in english, but because you guys use harmful spy ops as legit retals, it makes it easy to make mistakes when you track it.

it can be written in fluffing french for all i care, a simple google translate can preserve its meaning fine.

its not the language, it's fluffing applying it that is impossible to do without pissing people off for even wasting the time to do so, let alone doing it correctly

your own alliance realized spy op retals are probably not a wise idea after all of this. you are the only idiot who still doesn't think that.

Well, we will stand by.

I brought up evo solely to point out which reset I was referring to, nothing more. Don't be so damn defensive. I said you won the reset, isn't that a complement?

i don't know why any alliance would think stealing 5k tech points a pop would be better than getting your 2k land back (or whatever sum of land).

very well said. but my point isn't on RoRs.

my point was on how we were trying to retal PDM's harmful spy ops (which ended up being #449) and chose the wrong ones.

there's a difference. countries like rockman's (who never even hit PDM at all this reset until the recent alliance wide farming spree) got hit by harmful spy ops by PDM.

i already addressed this. i was wiling to accept their nuke retals and even spy op retals for the sake of peace evo style. it was their new landgrabs and unprovoked harmful spy ops that we were trying to retal. the new landgrabs were retaled mostly cleanly, but the problem is that the harmful spy ops were hard to retal.

i just want two things

1) who ran #449
2) if you want to use methods that are easy to make mistakes on (like using harmful spy ops) as part of your official policy, you should also be open to accepting mistakes made onto you because of your own policy

the more i think about it the more i wished this was actually a planned thing i did with RD back in 2005.

"hey yo RD, i bet in 6 years PDM is going to have some lame ass policy with harmful spy ops and nuke retals. so how about this. i'm going to retire for 6 years, and then i'll come back then and we can collude to fluff them up!"

i am like SO forward thinking. call me fluffing nostradamus

You are the one that "figured out who done it"..a mistake
Our guy did not spy you by mistake..he was a n00b and his country was offered as farm/kill...YOU made the misyake

you still didn't tell me who he is.

are you sure he was a n00b? maybe its first reset in PDM but he's actually from another alliance just trying to stir the pot?

i don't buy that he is a completely new player.

like i said again if you are really into solving this, chase the trail while its hot...

otherwise PDM's insistence of not doing so makes me believe that they did this on purpose to try to tarnish LaF's reputation.

i already read the messages that you guys was thinking of disbanding in the past with the sole purpose of suiciding on LaF.

if i was to fire up the conspiracy theories, maybe this was your "flawless" conspiracy plan.. to put your own alliance at risk (aka so no one is going to accuse you of doing this), for the sole purpose of ruining the reputation of LaF. you should really look at your own leaders.

they were already willing to make your alliance a dedicated "LaF suiciding machine" already, so "trying in their best interests to keep PDM alive" is a joke

It was probably Detmer. :)

You mean you fs'd the same SoF that was already engaged in war with 6 tags, and had m0m0 detagged doing what ever they liked? and were never really in a position to war another alliance... That must have been hard for you, want a cookie?



Um LaF told pdm it wouldnt accept missile retals, or harmful spy ops as retals as far as i can tell. It would even appear they ended up farming pdm over it. Evo preserve netgaining resets because they would lose members if they warred too often, and thats not a jab at evo members despite what you may think, evo's members will to netgain is probably the reason they are as successful as they are at anw titles.

Although for fear of sounding almost nice to evo, your incompetent at warring. So its for the best you've had over a month to learn what you're doing.

Has no importance to give a name..You were offered to farm it and due to the fact that he was small-ish,,you all decided to "accidently" hit a better land farm...we all see it.

that would make sense.

i know detmer almost wanted to make PDM a LaF suicide brigade that comes every reset.

since they were already on a suicide mission, they basically "suicided" this reset and dedicate their efforts to try to fling LaF's reputation in the mud in front of the AT community.

as just a member snawdog, you don't know fluff about the real politics of the server.

actually the name is highly important. your refusal of providing it just makes this more fishy, considering i gave full disclosure earlier and you are still trying to hide fluff

but at least i have closure now and i leave this at least more peacefully than yesterday (i came back because i had that unsettled feeling inside me, so i came back to read hoping to find out some answers and i think i got it).

the way i see it.

1) LaF wanted peace
2) PDM didn't want peace because they goal this reset was to tarnish LaF's reputation and was willing to die for it
3) PDM died.
4) ?
5) Profit?

and i remember the minute we grabbed other people, PDM heads and leader types were all over AT pushing their agenda of the "evil farming LaF", so they definitely played their AT propaganda part

Thanks for your time. I won't respond anymore until you tell me who #449 is.

I don't understand it. PDM at 31 members is sizable enough in this server. Two resets ago they were a dead alliance and Detmer rebuilt them. Why throw it away and turn yourself into irrelevancy as another Imag? You don't have to war, but stand up and act like an alliance...

But a BIG member...Go retire again...