I agree with Alin

Im serious too, Russia is just protecting its interests, besides the new leader of Ukraine is a fascist fluff.

I am undecided yet. It depends on how the Ukrainian government and people act for me. Then we can see if Russia is only trying to keep the peace. Unfortunately the information in the media is hardly reliable in such situations.

President Obama warned Russian President Vladimir Putin that he would be on "the wrong side of history" if he continued. He also said that the U.S. would aim to preserve "the principle that no country has the right to send in troops to another country unprovoked."

"It's an incredible act of aggression," Secretary of State John Kerry. "It is really a stunning willful choice by President Putin to invade another country. Russia is in violation of the sovereignty of Ukraine. Russia is in violation of its international obligations."

lmao

Blah blah blah blah blah

Everyone knows Obama is all talk, hence Syria.

I was posting those quotes because of how hypocritical they show the U.S. to be

that`s not hypocritical, that`s hilarious! I am sure both Usa and Russia were sometimes on the wrong part of events in the history ( ok, Russia more ). But that part with the troops is freaking hilarious ... if true.

if america does the LG on canada i claim we do it on the island and maybe BC so the pot smokers in the usa can get good weed

We got excellent weed in Oregon, bro! :p

yes and BC isnt that far from Oregon either ;)

don't forget alaska, washington, california, and colorado

As I understand it, the situation arose because

1. The "new Ukrainian government" doesn't recognize the "new Crimea government" because it was unconstitutional.
2. The "new Crimea government" doesn't recognize the "new Ukrainian government" as legitimate because it ousted the previous one out un-democratically.

Am I correct or am I off-base here?

Bullfluff.

You are using numbers based on "ethnic russians". There are only ~2M people total in Crimea. 1.2M of them are not Russian Citizens. If you have a source to back that claim, let me know.

Suggesting Russia has a military right to invade to protect "ethnic" descendants of the Rus is nuts.

Correct, IMHO.

The 3/30 Crimean referendum (if done properly) would be the proper path to self-determination, not a Russian invasion.

Of course, with Russia in control of Crimea now, they may have undermined the legitimacy of the 3/30 referendum. If they allow in international observers, it would help a lot.

They would overwhelmingly favor Russia regardless I think

what really bothers me is theese flufffaces that apear on TV threatening fluff and shooting sanction and words at each others - this brave heroes leaders of our planet will be all hidden 5 miles under the ground when giving more orders to push more red buttons.

Altought different in doctrine - another fluffface i remember doing this was shooting orders to 15 years old boys from his Führerbunker in Berlin.

I agree with everything Atryn has said.

Pal you don`t know how ethnic works in this part of the world. . In Romania there are over 1 mil hungarians - all of them are citizens of Romania but will 100% support Hungary in any direct Confrontation with Romania ( political, diplomacy or war). Wanna talk about ex-Yugoslavia ethincs ? or maybe about the albanians in Macedonia or the serbs in Croatia ( or viceversa ). Or the russians in Crimea ...

This does not work like in USA, trust me.

And i did not say Russia has any right to invade any country. But claiming Russia is wrong when invading the above mention, is hillarious. It`s hillarious after all the things that happend in this world since 1969.

What really is a problem here is that Ukraine is , most probable , a nuclear power too.

and there are probably more than 2.5 mil people in Crimea - out of which 60% are russian ethnics/ or however you would like to name them. so that`s more than what i actually posted first time.

Fairly epic article.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...s-peoples-government.html

it is a fluffed up situation and the only blame for this is of that ex president who could not let the power just go ...

That's not the only blame, the article I just linked shows how ethnic russians in ukraine really feel like they're now being undemocratically ruled over, this new government that didn't ask for their support and is doing things that piss them off

Geographically Crimea and Nova Scotia are quite similar. Crimea has a landmass of 26,000 km2, Nova Scotia 55,000 km2. Both are Peninsulas connected by narrow land bridges to the mainland. Halifax harbour is one of the largest natural harbours in the world, and Sevastopol one of the most strategic.

What a contrast in the political situation between Nova Scotia and the Crimea though

i suggest canada invade and take over nova scotia immediately!

cant wait to see the retal

the media is generally lazy though. Why do you think of Israel gets so much media attention as a world trouble spot whereas places like Uganda, Mali, Venezuela, and Sri Lanka get virtually none in spite of the fact that they have much larger populations?

I don't really blame Russia in this case (unlike in Georgia but lets not go there). Can you imagine what the US would do if demonstrations forced the Mexican government to resign and they installed a pro-legalize all drugs/surrender to the cartels president.. or more equivalently, a Canadian government was installed whose plan was to tear up NAFTA and join the EU (yeah I know that Canada isn't eligible but lets say that somehow it was).

As an aside it's not "nothing" but it really only holds strategic value to Russia (and it's only other value is that it has popular beach resorts).


Weather you agree or not, Ukraine is Russia's turf in the same sense that Canada/Mexico are the US's turf(ie another major power trying to fluff with them is a non-starter). The Russian's are probably worried that the Ukraine will try to join NATO and there will be Balistic missiles placed right on their border.

Oh yeah, we probably don't have all the information coming out of there right now anyway so who the fluff knows what is really going on. I really doubt it's going to come to full scale war. Russia can simply cut off the gas pipelines and negotiate terms. The EU needs gasprom too...

We could always hope, right? :)

-10 on this one, Blid, The Obama administration is not the "U.S.", it's all him there, unfortunately, he has a lot of sycophants on his side to power what he wants to do. He is NOT prepared for any sort of military response to the "Russion" aggression. For one, there hasn't been a shot fired, and secondly, the Russians have their main Naval Base there for their Black Sea Fleet, thus they originally had a large contingent of Russian Nationals living there in support of said base, thus the population of the are is primarily Russian, not people who claim Ukrainian citizenship, although in most cases I'd wager, the people are indistinguishable. They provide the excuse, and right now, at least according to what I've seen the soldiers who have taken control of those key locations, and buildings in Crimea are not sporting any sort of identifying informative uniform articles, and I've also head that the Russians, believe that they are local folks opposed to the new Ukranian political leadership since the ouster of the previous president who is being sought for charges by the new administration there.

Considering the size of that Naval Base (one of the largest in the world) it wouldn't surprise me if Vladimir Putin refers to it as an issue of National Security for his government and people. And personally, I wouldn't blame him for it. He's apparently going to ensure the sscurity of the Russian Federation the way he thinks is best, and I've gotta admit, this is probably a good move on his part.

Obama on the other hand, has a very weak hand at this point, he's lost any sort of respect from the allies of the U.S. through his underhanded blundering about trying to spy on everyone, among other issues related to his veracity.

In addition, he has relieved many top commanders of the military who have not passed his litmus test about whether or not they'd be willing to fire on Americans.

That makes the knucklehead in the White House, a dangerous man right now, he might feel the need to show his "manliness" and toss a nuke or two. This would obviously not be the will of the American People, but rather, the will of someone who still thinks he's on the streets and running scared.

The endless luxury vacations are going to come to an end if Putin wants to make an issue of it, and that can't be allowed to happen. Damn, no more golfing at all the resorts... OH NO! "and I thought I had a couple of more good years of doing that stuff before I have to get serious to keep this power"

PUHLEEEEEEZE!!!!!!

It's Obama, not the U.S.

Views from a very successful entrepreneur and friend outside the U.S. (based in Singapore):

I care about Ukraine because of 8% of our employees are Ukrainians. And because my family is half-Estonian, which too has suffered Russian incursions on the BS excuse of Russian-speaking Estonians being in danger (Russia launched the world's first modern cyber-war against Estonia a few years a back).

Here's how I think the situation in Ukraine will play out. Open to your thoughts/ideas

1. Russia was thinking of annexing Crimea, but won't go forward because Putin miscalculated the the rapid response by the EU and USA. Those economic sanctions would hit Russia hard.

2. Putin will pull out. But to show his 'strength' will do so in his own time and in line with an excuse that 'Russians in Crimea are now safe.'

3. The whole situation will speed up Ukraine's integration into the EU.

4. The situation will speed up Georgia's integration into the EU too. Since it too has been victim of Russian land grabs.

5. Republicans in the USA will use this whole military exercise to blame Obama and paint him as a wuss. Not realizing that the US lost it's legitimacy to criticize Russia for invading a sovereign state under false pretenses when the GOP invaded Iraq. The Republican Party needs to shut up and get behind the American President as the world needs American leadership to be strong right now. This is not a time for petty politics.

6. Ukraine will move away from the Russian sphere. This will damage Putin's legacy and reputation within Russian.

7. The world will move on. I'm looking forward to having Ukraine in the EU. So our Ukrainian employees can legally work from our upcoming new office in Estonia ‪#‎winning‬

PS - don't accuse me of being anti-Russian. My kids speak fluent Russian. Mindvalley has a thriving Russian business. I'm anti-war and anti-Putin. But love Russian culture and people.

Your thoughts?

More on the situation here:
http://edition.cnn.com/...ed/index.html?hpt=bosread

Posted by a Ukranian on that same thread:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/...k-pictures_n_4894919.html

It was the U.S. that invaded Iraq (under the Bush administration). Now the U.S. is saying "the principle that no country has the right to send in troops to another country unprovoked." This type of hypocrisy is typical for the U.S. You're obsessed with Obama.

i don't know, you take a hardline stance on russia of now being soviet or bolshevik, but you hold obama;s US to bush's US?

seems only fair if you want to draw a correlation, i get to draw the same one?

Oooo, and even more fun for conspiracy theorists:

http://pando.com/...overnment-documents-show/

Incidentally, I protested the U.S. invasion of Iraq, so regardless of what my government has done... but then us little guys don't get much say, eh?

Blid, at no time did I mention what the Bush Administration had done to warrant being accused of arrogance and hypocrisy. The biggest problem facing the U.S. right now, is the professional class of politicians that are running the show for their own singleminded focus on their own personal wealth and well-being, and not working for "The People" that they were elected to represent.

Unfortunately, with the current make up of the government, all congressmen and senators are lawyers, and their appointees to positions within the government are made without regard to any qualificiations, or capabilities to perform a certain task, thus, incompetence is the hallmark of the employees of the government as well.

The dumbing down of the American people has been going on since WWII, and it's effects are now being felt to be very strong.

I blame the lawyers for setting up this system of control for themselves and their situational ethics.

This seems like an odd take to me. Russia has basically done as they wish so far, and any sanctions at this point exist as nothing but threats. I think Crimea is gonna leave Ukraine, especially because I think the population there wants to, and eastern Ukraine probably stays as Ukraine.

when the rest of europe needs to buy energy from russia you can't exactly hold them over a barrel (no pun intended, heh).. they all along have you at their whim.. outside of the us the ukraine has zero hope.. are we really going to neville chamberlain the ukraine to the filthy ruskies?

The two sides somewhat represented on that thread... First, from a pro-russian in Ukraine:



And then from the opposing view in Ukraine:



I find the dialogue from people inside Ukraine intriguing. No denying there are conflicting views and a sort of national identity crisis.

I would just prefer to see them sort it out internally.

Under Russia's existing law, a neighbouring state would have to sign a treaty with Russia to allow part of its territory to become a new "subject" of the Russian Federation.

But Mikhail Yemelyanov, deputy leader of A Just Russia, said the law had been drafted for peaceful times, and did not go far enough for situations where a state was falling apart.

"In conditions where a neighbouring state is disintegrating I don't think the Russian Federation should be restricted in its ability to accept a territory whose people have expressed a clear will and desire to be in Russia," he said.

Source: http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26381454

http://cepa.org/...sis-crimea-four-scenarios

This seems like a fairly balanced view:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26415508

fluff this thread....

has no one thought about the ramifications of sanctioning russia and the vodka!!! think about the vodka!!!

russia ain't only1 who makes vodka.

I've heard finnish vodka is pretty good

Probably right here. Well, as right as anyone can be in predicting the future. This is a solid prediction


It doesn't matter if the Republicans do get behind Obama, American leadership will be weak at best because President Obama has drawn lines and backed down from them. He didn't have to draw a line in Syria; President Obama could have simply said that the US was monitoring the situation and he would be consulting with Congress to determine if/when the US would intervene as events on the ground develop. Instead he drew a red line that the whole world now knows he had no intention of backing up. American leadership is weak because President Obama has shown himself to speak without thinking and then to have no spine in backing up his words in any way. As for Iraq, did the Iraqi people control their country or was there a dictator named Saddam Hussein controlling things and killing anyone who tried to get rid of him? To say that Iraq was a sovereign nation at the time is to say that Saddam Hussein was a sovereign dictator. No dictator is sovereign. If the people really like their leaders, then a free and fair election will bring those leaders back to power again. Saddam Hussein allowed no free and fair election. The Iraqi people were free to vote for Saddam Hussein in his pretend elections. No, Iraq was not a sovereign nation before the allied invasion...only after the invasion did the people regain control and Iraq become sovereign once again.


You have a typo at the end of point 6.

http://i.imgur.com/Vhgb4ay.jpg

LOL! GOOD ONE!

HA!

SAM
EASILY AMUSED,
THE MIGHTY CLAN [DANGER]!

http://i61.tinypic.com/2mwh2rr.jpg

Some video from Сrymea

Sevastopol:
23.02.2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnl2Kgmn5JI
27.02.2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxDeAF9sbng#t=20

Evpatoria:
01.02.2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up1w-ANyrVg

Simferopol:
01.02.2014 http://vk.com/...272?hash=9ab1ec1c3fe72c23

Kerch:
01.02.2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXxUgsJpnIk

Thank you new member.

Crimean council voted to join Russia today. referendum going to the people in 10 days, asking if they want to join russia, and if they want to return to the 1992 constitution.