SS.....do you read?

does anybody on these boards READ entire posts?

you wanted PDM to be your FREE


FREE





FREE FREE land farms for an entire set giving you 100'000's if not millions of free acres....sorry Thatguy took nowhere NEAR that much, no country can in alliance and then claim the 10 ten... you wante a group of players to essentically....create countris and play them for you, people have better things to do then run, free land farms for another alliance

As I would reply in any other game forum when someone claim something

Pic (or in this case, link) it or it didnt happen

You don't know what you are talking about tbd, in the end all we were asking for was 100% land:land, that is in no way unreasonable, and was already a major concession, given all the bushels we lost as well.

We also warned you what would happen if the reparations were not paid, your leaders decided the war was worth it (otherwise they would have paid the reps)

There have been multiple times where I, as the fa, sacrificed my own country to pay reps for another ladder in order to avoid war.

I forfeited my country to RD so they wouldn't kill some oaf country that topfed them. I have done it in other circumstances as well. In at least one of those cases i gave up a top 10 country for it (and I had never finished top 10 before at that point).

So don't try to come on here talking to me about asking/expecting too much, I know what it means to sacrifice for the sake of saving your alliances netgaining reset. Obviously you dont

God this is probably why your FA quite

you guys have so much hatred it is laughable and can't move past

this is what is pissing off Pang as well it seems, I have my dissagreements with him, but he wanted everyone to have a fresh start, which you guys apparetnly didn't bring with you when you came here :(

You're ignorant you cant even read your own posts.
You just suggested i wanted to destory PDM for two resets. You fs'd LaF the second time, i didnt land grab you, i didnt fs you. I wanted reps, in one reset, you didnt pay because your leaders didnt want to, that's in no way on me.

If you want someone to be pissed at, be pissed at PDM leadership. If they were good leaders they would of got their countries together and paid the reps that they owed. I told them flat out, dont pay and i will FS you. Thats what a good leader does, he/she takes responsibility for his/her members and act in their interests. If Tan thought breaking a pact with Laf was in the interest of PDM, you have to talk to him about that. The action we took after the pact was broken was not only obvious, but we spelled it out to him multiple times.

it seems H4 really is an idiot

oh well talking to you is like talking to a brick wall

so...in your mind...getting 100's of thousands of free acres the next set was ok? if not millions?

let me get that straight H4, so everyone can see that losing what 20K acres I believe is L:L to 100'000 or million acres for set long farming?

and guess what SS

our leaders took responsibity for our members

works both ways :D

Our members did not 100% was against being laf's farms fro an entire set sorry, was never, is never, will still neverh happen

no play, especially and entire alliance will play an entire set as some other alliances farm, it is not only a matter or pride it doesn't become a game then, it just becomes..well nothing?

What are you talking about?

We never, EVER, asked pdm to be our landfarms for an entire reset, little own 2 resets. We asked for the land we lost back and that is all. If people in pdm were telling you otherwise, then you were being fed falsified information.

It didn't happen, plain and simple

How do you not get this. PDM broke a unap. The only responce to that is war. In my mind legitimately there is no alternative.

Oh well you both hate pdm, nothing I say will change that

that is for you guys and pdm's leaders to work out (or from the looks of it not work out)

how not working it out will work for both alliances is yet to be seen but it won't be good for 1 or both

i'm out, argue with someone else

TGD is just plain daft.

Dude log off, you're embarassing yourself.

a: there were something like 20 days left in the reset, and pdm offered 3? countries to pay reps.
b: the reps agreement was already at a massively reduced rate due to your size and the time left in the reset
c: you offered your lowest rankers as the people laf could hit, thus making the slowest return possible, only futher losing nw for laf when we had already agreed to take a fairly large nw hit in the fa deal.

You say pdm took responsibility for its members. Thats fine, pdm taking responsibility and saying we dont want to pay reps is fine. But dont fluff to me about the obvious consequences of taking such an action and then claim we ran you from the game.

Any legit alliance leader, or heck, any logical player will realize truths.

PDM doesn't want to take responsibility for their own members' action, and got FSed the following reset. This scenario has happened twice, 03 and 06. And one of the time PDM was even pacted to LaF.

A few resets ago, yet another few PDM suiciders on LaF. This time PDM agrees to pay reps, after LaF lowers the reps demanded. But, PDM makes the situation harder by only providing 3 low targets. And eventually declares that they don't want to pay anymore after reaching 70%ish. Which probably didn't even reach 50% of the original amounts.

PDM got killed for it.

This reset, PDM starts the exchanges, while 7 LaF grabbers decide to join in, PDM members decided that it was too much and uses missiles and harmops as part of retaliation, as well as stealing tech from uninvolved LaF countries.

On top of that, PDMers top feeds various uninvolved LaF allX countries.

After a series of exchanges, PDM decides to kill off a LaF country, with out a declaration of war, which then is just a bunch of GS attacks, and LaF decides to retal.

Seriously PDM members, how do you guys keep defending your leadership's decisions? And the choices of a few members that decides to suicide another alliance?

But then again, they probably won't read this anyways.

This wasn't intended to be a pdm bashing thread... Heh

someone from pdm needs to put a muzzle on tgd

and why the heck are you laf clowns responding to him

typing mistake free on my iphone because I'm better than h4

You must have little girl fingers!

>.> But it was acceptable when Laf gs'd and did harmful ops on our countries in our netting reset 10 mins before the end of the reset (6 years ago). Sol didn't fluff and moan we just FS'd laf the next set. Then that cleared the air and ended conflict for that time. I'm not say this to say Laf is bad or PDM is bad I am merely saying:

PDM and LAF need to get a room and clear out their stockpile of sexual tension. Both sides refuse to have a proper war and it just builds up on both sides.

Hate is not the opposite of love. Hate us and we will love you back. Keep thinking of us forever :)

TGD just stfu you sound like an idiot spewing nonsense. Thank god you aren't a leader for any clan on here or they'd have been wiped off the map going by your flawed logic.

If someone in PDM ruined a few of LaF's countries and the terms agreed upon means all of PDM has to sacrifice a set to do reparations then guess what? You have to do it. If you think it's not fair then I'll call the whaaaaaambulance for you and maybe they will listen to your sob story.

There have been more than one occasion where I was either HFA or VP of TIE and we had members suicide on LaF (I think it was a set where we had Miscreant and some other Rival players in TIE)and they caused massive damage where the end result was that my country as well as many other TIE countries had their following set ruined due to paying back reparations. I think there was a set we had to owe back over $8 Billion in reps.

The honourable thing to do is if you have a pact in place you do what's right and pay back according to pact terms. Whether or not you think it's fair is besides the point.

i'm going to point out that the last suicide you mentioned was quite possibly the one where the member had actually detagged for 72 hours, then suicided LaF after they had topfed/farmed his country at the last minute 3 sets in a row. Yet you expected us to pay reps anyways?
Don't think so.

Last three minutes are 'fair game' (what I was told last time) however thats only for outgoing actions but not receiving... gotta love it.

Not even playing or part of either alliance, but bored randomly tonight and going through threads out of boredom. TGD really has no reading comprehensive skills eh...

yup.
though it turns out it wasn't that suicide, though LaF still demanded reps on that one too.
in thisd case teh reps were justified, more thsn 3 countries were offered, as I know tan's, mine, balin's, doug's, Leto's and I can't think of the last member. Balin's was a top level country, I had the memebr farming me tell me to "Hurry the fluff up and get out of fluffing DR's" even though I was going as fast as I could and playing turns and doing stuff to get out of DR as fast as I could, your own FA was being a rude and arrogant prat, and in the end, you managed to piss Balin off enough that he finally said stick yer reps where the sun don't shine. given that I have NEVER seen balin get pissed off abr that one time, your own arrogant and rude attitude cost you.

Tarnava: you need to get your head out of your ass regarding this set. I never intentionally grabbed LaF per se, I grabbed a country who was fat while half asleep, immediately apologised and was happy with the retal taken, and at the time would have been happy if a second had been too. the other member who grabbed you had hit several allies this set, and is still being reamed for it. his country was opened to farming to you guys. instead, you and a couple of your other members took it upon yourselves to farm us. One of our members responded with nukes. you retalled these, and we let that slide too. you then chose to farm 594 after baselessly accusing him of spy opping you even though it was proven not to be him, which your own FA admitted. you chose to massively farm him anyways, and we killed the worst offender, which your FA has ALSO since admitted we were justified for through you guys farming the wrong country.
further, it turns out that LaF DID know RD's plans, and I would say that you used that as a deliberate excuse to farm us, with the thinnest of justifications.
there are certain of LaF's leaders I have at least a little respect and time for, but you sir are not one of them. you are simply a moron spouting the same old tired spin crap to try to justify your pathetic actions.
but feel free to try farming us again next set.

Imperial: an amount agreed upon doesn't mean that every suingle country has to become a target. if a half dozen countries are willing to give up their sets and be farmed for LaF's benefit ( pointing out here that the countries who did give up their sets also dropped their breaks as low as possible ( I personally dropped my break to a 1 jet SS, so saying that there were associated expenses is ridiculous). for LaF to then act like arseholes whilst taking their land back is outright rude.
TGD's point is that LaF expected the entire clan to sit back and be farmed. we asked for volounteers, and volounteers stepped up. just because it wasn't the whole clan so it was going to take a fraction longer is irrelevant.

when you guys are talking about in the last 5 minutes are you referring to when the last update only counted for individual score updates not clan scores?

i used to sell all my stuff on private and do buyouts with countries i didnt plan to have in t100 in ffa if thats what your talking about


and drow the expenses for land as reps rather than food/cash should be obvious, the later it is the less its worth, 1 extra bonus acre that didnt effect your explore returns at all (ie you wernt exploring) at turn 100 is worth about 2.5m cash less the amount build costs go up, for a 20k country with mbr phase that would be 90k so not a huge issue

the same acres in the last week is worth only the extra reselling or destocking it gives you

thats why after a certain point non land reps is simpler, and why non land reps in most scales would go up each week to simulate the effect of one party choosing to accept reps rather than land at different points in a set

I dislike both PDM and LAF so therefore am impartial.

LaF thinks mass-grabbing to reduce the ability to retal is OK. It is not. It is something Pang would go off the handle about if it was any alliance but LAF.

LaF thinks continuing to grab an alliance while another alliance FS's it is ok. It is not. It is also highly ironic that the FSing alliance (RD) was once known for rampant cheating and close LaF ties.

LaF thinks that something that happened 8 years ago to some egotistical moron is cause to continue a grudge. It is not.

You guys are seriously challenging Imag for biggest assholes on the server.

forum posting bonus post.

I appreciate H4's intention to lay out his case for not showing PDM any respect. Over the span of 8 years, you were the target of suiciders from the PDM tag and feel like each situation was dealt with poorly. This thread turned into mindless flaming pretty early, so I'll try to keep my flaming strictly to SS. :P

Being privy only to the most recent example, I will say we were paying out the ass per your terms (which were mafia-esque, but hey, that's appropriate given your chosen persona). Obviously this didn't make us happy, as IIRC thatguy had been detagged for 72 hrs as someone else mentioned, but we were indeed paying up. SS is the one of the worst Earth personalities I've encountered, and was a total d-bag to TAN during all negotiations. SS is the paragon of the LaF-as-entitled-douchebag stereotype, and eventually we were like fluff it, we've already paid more reps than any other alliance on the server would reasonably demand, and SS's existence made us depressed to be human beings, so we stopped paying.

Hanlong's message to us all set was that we shouldn't judge LaF this set by the actions of its leaders in the past. With SS gone, that is a compelling argument. Felt like we made some inroads this set, despite the fact that you gamed your knowledge of RD's FS to your advantage, at least enshula & hanlong were willing to talk respectfully and intelligently.

I don't know if it's even worth mentioning again as you continue to selectively ignore it, but it's spin to keep saying that we did harmful ops as retals on you this set. We did not. Some n00b stole $25m worth of tech from you, and we told you to put him on farm. You didn't, you farmed our tag indiscriminately instead. It was a lapse in judgment on your part that you acknowledged publicly, and contributed greatly to the escalation of things. It's nub to keep trying to pin all blame on PDM this set when you've already admitted otherwise.

So in sum, I can see why you don't like PDM. IDK if you can see why we don't like LaF (it's pretty obvious, but it's hard to be self-aware). At the end of the day, we can either continue this cycle set after set, or, in the absence of leaders like SS, maybe we can work things out. The dialogue between LT, Forgotten, SS, and TGD doesn't help, but maybe it's possible. We all know AT is just a troll playground, so I'm optimistic LaF/PDM can be resolved in private.

That said, it's probably an ill-founded optimism, because other than hanlong's apology, it seems the prevailing attitude from LaF is still "we don't like you, we will not admit fault, and we will continue to abuse you because we like taking your land." Seems you don't want peace or resolution because then you'd have less people to bully. I understand that from your strategic perspective, but it's unsustainable.

Wat? That's a complete fabrication. Yes, I whined about the pact terms, but I honored our agreements up until you started acting petulant and insulting.



Err...no. I said we would halt all reps after you called me a tool.

dagga i think all the old stuff is getting brought out by both sides because people are saying the other side hasnt changed

but it doesnt really matter even if we didnt change because stuff happened this set anyway that could have been an issue between two random/new groups

farming an alliance at war isnt ideal, but no one from pdm ever asked us to stop, and obviously hits continued to be exchanged, we could have done 1 way dnh but didnt for a while, theres been no hits exchanged for about a day now, weve actually had PDM on dnh for a while at this point, im not sure what pdm is doing

and im waiting a couple of days to really try working through a resolution because it sounds like their hfa is coming back then

umm ok.... first of all, I thought this kind of thing was going to stop when you came back?

Second -> I actually curbed grabbing while I was in LaF. While I was Don,I curbed it much more than any other Don before. I don't think your that post can actually carry much water for that reason -- I was always the voice of grabbing reason while I was in LaF, and a big part of that was because I wanted small alliances to thrive.

I also had been in their business more than any other alliance over the last year, working from the inside. It's not my fault that things I tell SoL's leaders don't make it to the members... in LaF that was never an issue :p

Anyway, go back to flaming each other.
On topic, though: I don't think it's "carrying over a grudge" for either side, since new issues keep popping up on a regular basis. LaF and PDM just don't get along. They're like India and Pakistan. Iran and Israel. Mel Gibson and Israel. Parker and Spitzer. Charlie Sheen and sobriety. Issues will keep going so long as both sides keep sticking to their guns and letting issues escalate on a regular basis.

That is my point

both sides keep bringing things up

Like I said this is only hurting what you are trying to do which is TRY to get alliances to have a clean slate which isn't working

I know PDM wouldn't really care about the past if LaF dropped Earth 2025 past politics and worked on relations with pdm *sighs*

Landgrabbing each other is fine and if everyone can just talk it'll work out much better in the long run, hopefully you can beat some sense into your alliance Pang :P

Say "HEY this is my game so play nice!" or something lol

I'm not in LaF anymore, I'm currently playing in SoF and focused mainly on that upcoming war!

but it's not up to LaF to adopt PDM's policies and/or "be nicer" to PDM -- there isn't just blame for any one side. PDM enacted some policies which, in my opinion, are almost always going to lead to wars or near wars. PDM shouldn't be complaining when it happens for that reason alone :p

when I dealt with PDM, they generally didn't want to accept any blame for what happened -- even when their own members suicided on LaF from their tag. Your post, TGD, looks like more of that. I feel that PDM is not at all an innocent party in this situation, or the last 3-4 situations involving LaF/PDM. However, how the situation escalated this time is quite unfortunate.

I like Pang's analogy. LaF thinks they are frickin rock stars from mars with tiger blood and always have to feel like they're #WINNING

are we speaking in tweets now?

awesome!

RT @BallinBalin: I like @pang's analogy. #LaF thinks they are frickin rock stars from mars with tiger blood and always have to feel like they're #WINNING

(#WINNING and #LaF are trending now, pwned!)

too many characters!

good thing I can code things to handle more than 140 characters!

get a shorter twitter name, btw!

lol did he reay tweet that??

I tried hard to improve relations between PDM and LaF. Sadly, I failed, and I'm never going to try again.

If LaF wants to ever improve our relations, they know where to find us.

Every time we sign a multi-set pact, at its expiration we are put back on, effectively, farm. It's what happens EVERY time.

And LaF wonders why PDM spawns suiciders that ONLY suicide on LaF.

Let's take a poll of other alliances to see how many PDMers have suicided on them in the past couple of years.

PDM doesn't care about rules, or policies, they have said repeatedly that they just want to have fun, and do whatever they want.

I'm pretty sure this PDM/LaF situation is going to continue, unless PDM can stop their members from harassing LaF countries (stealing tech, top feeding all X, missile retals), and stopping the suiciders from within PDM.

17 grabs from 7 countries in 24 hours, is not farming. If you don't want to see that, then there's options.

1) Get more defense, if you have 3mil turrets each, I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be 17 hits.
2) get a pact with LaF.

if you want to run with 300k turrets on a 12k land country, then it's your fault if you are grabbed. if you want to run a 300k turret country for the whole set (like I did last reset) then you have to pact out the server.

this isn't E2025 where there's plenty of bots that you can farm, it's EE, heck, it's the survival of the fittest, and if you aren't pacted to everyone, then you better have good defense.

The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: Be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge." -Elbert Hubbard

You'll just be farmed/destroyed, reset after reset, until you disband.

I'm not posting in defense of LaF here, I'm just saying that's what will happen. Because LaF is larger and more organized, and isn't interested in mending/changing its policies to fit PDM's style of gameplay.

you know if the members of LaF instead of going LG crazy, from what it seems what is what happend, exchanging hits and LGs is what should happen

For example one member in PDM KNOWS that he was going to lose a lot of his land that he gained from LGing (but keep a lot from the ghost acres)

that is what makes this fun if you don't worry so much about getting LG as if you are near in networth you will GAIN on the ghost acres

Activily doing LG's without fearing the consquences and without over burdening an alliances retal capacity is what looks like will actually make this game fun. If you only have 2-3 alliances that you are not pacted to and you are one of the biggest, and cannot put restraints on your members not to LG an alliance so much that it will cause them to do, out of the norm repraisals

It would be funny to see nobody pact anybody for a set and see what happens and have everyone be able to, well LG anyone else

It is this heavy pacting out that is harming this game I think. Year you have your friends and what not, but will it harm them if they gain 500 + acres off a retal on you?

I don't know how FA works, but in my opinion, if you hade just your DP and only had them for defensive purposes without all the "don't LG this alliance" rules both sides would probably benifit

I know this will never happen, but would be very interesting to see the entire server be allowed to LG whoever they wanted without Just LGing to death the very few

Flame me if you want, the idea may be stuipd in your eyes, but it would lessen the burden on massivily LGing the same countries over and over again *shurgs* lol

It's not just LaF. Be honest here NukEvil, if it was EVO that PDM is messing with, EVO would do the exact same thing.

Have you not seen us? We are like nuclear fluffroaches - impossible to exterminate and strong enough that it takes a team of five to kill one of us!

We are enjoying playing far more than we have in a long time. We enjoy this gameplay. LaF on the other hand will have to start accepting some of what we do or they will not get to netgain a whole lot.

We actually have no trouble coming to peaceful resolutions with Evo. This is definitely a LaF specific issue.

heh, see PDM argues that LaF gets suicided by them because we farm them so much.

I'm trying to tell you that we treat you the way we do (aka grab you so much) because of how much you suicide us.
We see the causality in reverse.
I think my take on the causality is supported by the fact that LaF and PDM always carried a pact back in the day. We stopped carrying pacts after suicides that weren't compensated (or adequetely compensated)

Actually, I seriously doubt that. But then again, Evo wouldn't farm PDM in the first place to warrant harmful spy ops and missile retals. Remember, PDM is most of the reason why Evo gets great land returns off of retals on PDM, thus resulting in our avg land advantage in our netting resets. Why would we want to risk throwing that away?

In the off chance that one of our members does go lg happy on PDM, Evo would be more than willing to make things right with PDM, so that both parties are satisfied. We're very excellent at diffusing situations with other alliances/clans/countries. It comes from many resets of netting.

So basically, PDM is LaF's personal iMag? An alliance that is content and satisfied at continual suiciding on LaF?

Nuke is wise! :O

do my suggestion

Drop all pacts!

then you can LG everyone equally and wouldn't have to worry about suisiders :D