We faught laf here in elders for about an entire year. Aside from one set where we ended up taking on sol/laf due to circumstances around an arranged war, and another where laf had all but won when MD100 FSed both tags, laf and elders+family warred a long time.

By the end laf was nearly 50 members (up from 25 or 30). Elders/sof/md/stones and pals was closer to 60. Even in that last set we warred where we finally declared a mutual surrender to an endless war, LaF never called in allies against us. Not one time. Even that last set of 60 members FSing from half a dozen tags and slaughtering LaF they never called in an ally.

I want to say both sides won or lost about 3 times (with two sets each where one side got totally dominated by the others warstrat), but i was the one calling in allies not laf...

They surely faced worse odds against us and they surely did not call in allies and took their licks.