OIL - Earth Empires Forum

h2orich

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Dec 11th 2014, 2:54:34

Get your local industry to generate more private market units by giving them oil.
Spend 40 oil generate 30 troops, 25 turrets, 25 jets and 10 tanks to be available for purchase on the Private Market.

so you're encouraging speculation of oil now?

Jayr

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Dec 11th 2014, 2:58:07

Why not? Instead of using it for war u can use it to get more PM units...war will soon be a thing of the past...

wasn't me...

Nerrus

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Dec 15th 2014, 11:47:16

Peace to the world, go figure.

^..^ Surren ^..^

The only secrets you know are the secrets I deliberately let you know.

Foo Called BooT

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Dec 15th 2014, 22:15:55

DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING AGAINT COMMUNISM?!!!!!!!!? this is a two way street ya know...

(plus I get bonus points for posting this)

KoHeartsGPA

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Dec 15th 2014, 23:01:58

Originally posted by Jayr:

Why not? Instead of using it for war u can use it to get more PM units...war will soon be a thing of the past...

NO!!! NEVER!!

Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

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vatzooland

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Dec 17th 2014, 10:48:33

Aliens have invaded my country. Is this a new thing?

vatzooland

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Dec 17th 2014, 10:48:57

they took all my resources

KoHeartsGPA

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Dec 17th 2014, 20:15:33

What? LOL

Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

vatzooland

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Dec 18th 2014, 0:21:20

must be a new change.

Riddler

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Dec 18th 2014, 1:08:50

Originally posted by vatzooland:

Aliens have invaded my country. Is this a new thing?

not if you're american and they're illegal

KoHeartsGPA

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Dec 18th 2014, 1:13:27

Originally posted by Riddler:

Originally posted by vatzooland:

Aliens have invaded my country. Is this a new thing?

not if you're american and they're illegal

😱 😆 😅

Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Frybert

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Dec 18th 2014, 1:23:47

Originally posted by Riddler:

Originally posted by vatzooland:

Aliens have invaded my country. Is this a new thing?

not if you're american and they're illegal

Some people act like its a new thing.

h2orich

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Dec 20th 2014, 4:39:58

how is this change suitable?
express units are sold average at $270-280/nw.. each oil barrel produces 1 turn worth of units. Assuming theo techer with $225/nw in your private market you only save about $50/nw l. Am I safe to say that unless you get oil at $50 or less / barrel then it is worth to use this function?

Celphi

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Dec 20th 2014, 4:48:57

Maybe the way to go is start as an oiler, then convert to MBR. And with all your unsold oil, use it to replenish.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Celphi

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Dec 20th 2014, 4:49:35

One of the main reasons I think the oiler strat doesnt work on EXPRESS is because you just cant sell it all..

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Celphi

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Dec 20th 2014, 4:53:17

Actually i'm just going to do a quick calculation- im curious if this would work...

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Celphi

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Dec 20th 2014, 5:03:38

Spend 40 oil generate 30 troops, 25 turrets, 25 jets and 10 tanks to be available

1000000 oil / 40 = X = 25000

30(x) 25(x) 10(x)

750000 troops - 625000 turrets - 625000 jets - 250000 tanks

(750000*30) = 22.5 mil
(625000*20) = 12.5
(625000*20) = 12.5
(250000*150) = 37.5 mil

37.5 mil + 22.5 + 12.5 + 12.5 = 85 mil

So, if you can sell
Troops @ $30 > PM
Jets @ $20 > PM
Turrets @ $20 > PM
Tanks @ $150 > PM

Then you make ~$85 mil off 1 mil oil. I'm sure you probably could do better than that on market as theo.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Celphi

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Dec 20th 2014, 5:06:12

Is oil vunerable to decay?

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mrford

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Dec 20th 2014, 5:55:20

there is no decay on oil

not sure what you ment by sell it all. was that a market demand statement? because unlike most market units, you can place 100% of your oil in one sale.

these oil changes virtually put a $80 floor on public market oil at the end of the set. from what i gathered talking to QZ these numbers were balanced around that number

you still need the cash to buy the extra units. it is a big change, but not as big as some may think.

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[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Celphi

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Dec 20th 2014, 7:08:54

What i posted was a way to sell all your excess oil, if you went oiler and converted to MBR. You could easily make $80 per oil, using the new system of replinishing your PM.

(I know you can PLACE all your oil on market. But you can't SELL all you oil on the market.) Someone attempted to play oiler some time ago on EXPRESS and couldn't defeat the obstacle of SELLING all their oil on EXPRESS server. The biggest problem was that the EXPRESS server simply doesn't have a great enough of a demand for oil to make an oiler strategy viable. What I have posted above is a possible solution to using your excess oil.)

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Celphi

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Dec 20th 2014, 7:11:05

The fact that oil doesn't decay makes me wonder if you could go an all oiler strat, sell what you could on PM and convert to MBR. Then use excess oil to effectively replinish PM as TMBR.

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Celphi

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Dec 20th 2014, 7:13:08

Maybe DMBR would be better so you could play the market. But the best thing about MBR is that it's not turn dependent. The downside i guess would be the market dependency. But since EXPRESS market fluctuates the most out of all the other servers- maybe it's worth looking into.

Note: Actually I can't comment about vs other servers because I know very little of the other servers- I'm just assuming that since it's only 15-45 mins to post units on market.

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Celphi

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Dec 20th 2014, 7:16:35

Hell- i may even try it-

F oiler ---> DMBR

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mrford

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Dec 20th 2014, 7:17:52

no, i mean it was literally balanced around $80

a week or 2 ago i had this convo

[22:41:33] <~qzjul> Get your local industry to generate more private market units by giving them oil.
[22:41:33] <~qzjul> Spend 40 oil generate 30 troops, 25 turrets, 25 jets and 10 tanks to be available for purchase on the Private Market.
05[22:41:45] <mrford> is that balanced?
05[22:41:49] <mrford> how would you even balance that?
[22:41:52] <~qzjul> aye
[22:42:02] <~qzjul> Slagpit did the balancing like 2 years ago
05[22:42:13] <mrford> based on?
[22:42:15] <~qzjul> it's balanced for $80/barrel for full TMBR
05[22:42:23] <mrford> ah
[22:42:37] <~qzjul> as in, a TMBR would buy anything below $80/barrel at end set, to burn and resell units

on this server running an oiler will still be just as volatile, although this gives a bit more stability and the opportunity to dump your stock late to a reseller for a few dollars more than you can on your private market if you made errors in your calculations. much like food.

that is my viewpoint anyways.

Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

h2orich

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Dec 20th 2014, 7:22:58

Originally posted by Celphi:

Spend 40 oil generate 30 troops, 25 turrets, 25 jets and 10 tanks to be available

1000000 oil / 40 = X = 25000

30(x) 25(x) 10(x)

750000 troops - 625000 turrets - 625000 jets - 250000 tanks

(750000*30) = 22.5 mil
(625000*20) = 12.5
(625000*20) = 12.5
(250000*150) = 37.5 mil

37.5 mil + 22.5 + 12.5 + 12.5 = 85 mil

So, if you can sell
Troops @ $30 > PM
Jets @ $20 > PM
Turrets @ $20 > PM
Tanks @ $150 > PM

Then you make ~$85 mil off 1 mil oil. I'm sure you probably could do better than that on market as theo.

Assuming you get these values, $85m for 1m oil, each barrel must be less than $85 to actually profit from all these, which is seldom the case.

Celphi

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Dec 20th 2014, 7:23:00

Interesting that he came up with $80. I guess my $85 wasnt too far off.

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Celphi

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Dec 20th 2014, 7:24:41

Well you wouldn't buy them for $80 each,. im saying you make a Fascist govt, sell your oil on market and use your excess oil. The calcualation is to show how much you would get on average per excess oil you didn't sell.

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Celphi

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Dec 20th 2014, 7:28:48

A Democracy with their land fully built up with military bases and 82% military tech, the private market prices are as follows: troops $88 jets $118 turrets $129 tanks $360

A Theocracy with their land fully built up with military bases and 89% military tech, the private market prices are as follows: troops $77 jets $103 turrets $112 tanks $315

selling troops for 118, jets 138, turrets 148 and tanks 510 might be a little tricky as demo

but for theo- it should be easy to resell for 107 troops, 123 jets, 132 turrets and 465 tanks... (hell you'd could probably boost up the jets/turrets) and make more per barrel.

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mrford

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Dec 20th 2014, 7:30:16

note the $80 was for a full bore TMBR. those numbers will change based on strat obviously.

Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Celphi

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Dec 20th 2014, 7:33:12

im going to actually calculate the whole thing tomorrow to see if it's worth it. should be interesting.

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h2orich

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Dec 20th 2014, 10:27:08

how many countries play tmbr now? the cost of converting and the low turn count on express server.. anyone sane will never play tmbr.

iccyh

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Dec 20th 2014, 10:47:24

I did the math on it back when I was playing; TMBR was actually my ideal destock option as a low-land (~10k A), all-x early stocking techer. Strat didn't work out as intended 'cause I didn't fit it to the server environment well enough, but the math is there to support TMBR if you're low enough on land and have a big enough stock.

Souly

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Dec 20th 2014, 10:55:58

yep that's the 1 Iccy :))) but not on express where oil is at high prices :P

Zorp

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Dec 20th 2014, 10:59:17

I think he was referring to math done before this change.

iccyh

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Dec 20th 2014, 11:03:28

Don't need the oil to do it, just ~5 hours or so at the end. Right now, due to the bot land, I expect it'd be trivially easy for a techer to rush to 10k A, stock, switch to TMBR, and get over $30m NW. If you can manage 250 A per hit, which doesn't seem entirely unreasonable, you're looking at only about 300 turns spent getting BPT, land, and buildings.

Edit:
Yeah, the rebuild is only in the area of $300m for a country that size. Assuming 1400 turns of teching at 3k TPT and an average price of $1500 and a NW cost of $172/NW you're looking at a ~$35m NW jump.

Edited By: iccyh on Dec 20th 2014, 11:11:24
See Original Post

silentwolf

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Dec 20th 2014, 12:48:43

tmbr in express ? oh please..

Celphi

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Dec 20th 2014, 12:52:01

I'm going to figure it out and place t10 with it. But not pure TMBR- I'll start as a pure oiler -> to tmbr (but i may go dmbr instead)

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Celphi

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Dec 20th 2014, 12:52:52

Working the math now.

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iccyh

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Dec 20th 2014, 13:00:45

I doubt it's there for strats other than techer due to income per acre questions.

Celphi

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Dec 20th 2014, 13:44:23

units_on_private_market = (units_on_logoff*(0.985)^TGAL)+bonus*unit_rate*Land*TGAL

TGAL = Turns Gained At Login

units_on_logoff = units On Market at logoff

Land = acres upon login

unit_rate
3.0 for troops
2.5 for jets and turrets
1.0 for tanks
2.0 for bushels

Is this still accurate? Does signing out affect it any more?

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iccyh

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Dec 20th 2014, 13:51:55

That's accurate.

That's Land*6.5 NW per acre per turn, at a cost of $172/NW for a TMBR.

Celphi

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Dec 20th 2014, 21:16:06

What's the formula for where your PM available caps at? I know it has to do with land...

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iccyh

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Dec 20th 2014, 21:33:53

It doesn't cap as such. That 0.985 is a decay function, so the cap is where ever the balance is between the decay and whatever you generate per turn, and that only kicks in if your PM wasn't empty on logout. If you log out with an empty PM, it'll fill indefinitely, until you log in.

Celphi

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Dec 20th 2014, 21:57:09

So you're saying I can have 500 land....

And if I sign out completely with 0 troops on my PM, that it is possible to signed back in with an available PM of 5 mil troops?

But if I'm signed in, the decay function will prevent my available PM to reach (beyond a relatively small #)?

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iccyh

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Dec 20th 2014, 22:13:33

Well, you'd have to be signed out for 3334 turns, but yes. And, the turn after, it'd decay like 75k troops immediately, vs. a gain of only another 1500 for a loss of 73.5k.

Celphi

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Dec 20th 2014, 22:34:33

So if you bought out your PM before the turn, then you could avoid the loss then right?

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Zorp

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Dec 20th 2014, 22:36:48

Yes. In fact if you plan a wholly PM destock, when it's time to login and start your jump, you can just not login, and put it off until the last turn of the set if you want to. Jumping hundreds of millions in NW at once would be funny. I've thought about doing it but I don't have the patience.

Edited By: Zorp on Dec 20th 2014, 22:41:04
See Original Post

iccyh

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Dec 20th 2014, 22:41:00

If you do that on alliance you lose lucrative reselling opportunities :P

Zorp

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Dec 20th 2014, 22:41:33

Originally posted by iccyh:

If you do that on alliance you lose lucrative reselling opportunities :P

If you do it 10 hours before the opportunity is still there.

iccyh

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Dec 20th 2014, 22:48:07

Yeah, but you're still shorting yourself. 52 hours is ideal imo, max PM size possible for a final resale.