I'm not in evo. I did not play a country in evo.

I posted in this thread because I have read for months about how LaF is going to contribute positively to the game, yet this is how you guys act.

As a game development amateur, I'd like to ask the professional why his standards don't apply to himself or to pang? I'd also like to know what would happen if someone told a game developer to "fluff off" on the WoW forums. Would he banned?

Your proof doesn't make any sense. Countries can't grab their research allies. Who is supposedly allied to who?

By the way, I didn't post anything for around a month. The only feedback I received was that I should post more.

What? Here's how you can tie #792 to EVO:


2011-01-11 10:13:58 CM coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 140B 4734 C
2011-01-11 10:13:53 CM coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 140B 4734 C
2011-01-11 10:13:32 NM coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 244A
2011-01-11 10:13:30 NM coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 244A
2011-01-11 10:13:18 GS coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 4361C 882527 F
2011-01-11 10:13:16 GS coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 4446C 908414 F
2011-01-11 10:13:14 GS coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 4532C 935060 F
2011-01-11 10:13:07 GS coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 4620C 962489 F
2011-01-11 10:13:01 GS coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez DH
2011-01-11 10:12:54 GS coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 4709C 990721 F
2011-01-11 10:12:48 EM coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 7733MU
2011-01-11 10:12:39 CM coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 140B 4734 C
2011-01-11 10:12:34 GS coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 4892C 1019782 F
2011-01-11 10:12:27 GS coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 4987C 1049696 F
2011-01-11 10:12:20 CM coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 140B 4734 C
2011-01-11 10:12:11 GS coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 5175C 1080486 F
2011-01-11 10:12:08 GS coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 5275C 1112180 F
2011-01-11 10:12:00 CM coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 140B 4734 C
2011-01-11 10:11:52 GS coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 5469C 1144804 F
2011-01-11 10:11:50 GS coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 5575C 1178385 F
2011-01-11 10:11:46 GS coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 5683C 1212950 F
2011-01-11 10:11:27 NM coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 244A
2011-01-11 10:11:21 GS coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 5793C 1248530 F
2011-01-11 10:11:07 GS coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 5905C 1285153 F
2011-01-11 10:10:54 NM coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 244A
2011-01-11 10:10:39 GS coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 6020C 1322850 F
2011-01-11 10:10:34 GS coffee makes the world go round (#792) Aranruth (#577) EVOdiez 6136C 1361654 F


The EVO country that was hit never touched him, by the way.

no RED STORM II grabbed him, and got awarded a tech ally AFTER.

i didn't say he grabbed him while being a tech ally. sorry about the miscommunication. not only that, #782 was tech allied to an unrelated evo country. i understand if you grabbed an untagged, apologized, became good friends all of a sudden and then he decides to be nice and send you a tech leech for the fun of the game. but that second tech ally just screams "hey i'm a evo guy being bored this reset". which is fine and dandy, just you couple that with suiciding other alliances, then other people won't be as happy.

why doesn't the standards apply to myself? if i was an admin, i would be like mehul.. the only place i'd post is in the announcements, not on alliance talk. but i'm not a admin here, i'm a player. i don't know why pang posts too much here, but that's his problem (and i said in the other thread that i preferred him to not get into the middle of server politics too much either).

no one ever told me to "fluff off" on the WoW forums. because i don't even post anything other than in game changes. if they told me fluff off because i "increased shaman frost dmg by 20%" then of course they would be banned. but if i was telling him how his arena team isn't "contributing positively in the game", etc. then my boss would be pissed at me.

i hope you can see the difference there

i did NOT tie #792 to evo. re-read my post. i specifically said #792 is not tied to evo. i tied #782 to evo. i said #792 screwed #229 over for no reason, and #792 screwed over #33, so #33 FAed #792 since one good country is better than two screwed up ones.

Wow is different than this game. If you want to tell me how to be an admin, do me the courtesy of not trolling in our forums while you do it.

I'll look into #782 and RED STORM II.

and ps, i still iterate that i wish this much detail wasn't necessary just to show a point.

i actually appreciate your work as a dev standpoint slagpit, for recreating this game to remind me of my younger days =)

despite that, i still think its poor form for you to intervene in EVO related affairs, even though you aren't playing in EVO, namely because you were in EVO in the past.

conversely, i think its also poor form for pang to intervene in LaF affairs if he's not going to be playing for us anymore and only wearing his admin hat. and if he starts making statements for LaF, i would not be happy.

his post however on AT earlier was addressing the overall server landscape with an admin hat spin on it, while i can't honestly say you have a complete admin hat on for this one. no offense, but it really has a flavor of evo-sided biasedness to me, and i believe everyone else who reads this can easily agree to this.

i will easily admit i am biased to LaF, but i also am not an admin and purely a player, and a head of said alliance, so that's just captain obvious. you my friend aren't in the same boat as me in EE =)

the untagged was the techer?

i was going to say that the usual thing to say in these cases was that the tech leech was reps of some kind for farming on the untagged

i don't want to "troll". if i was talking smack about another alliance and not EVO i don't think you would be saying i was "trolling". even if i was trolling, that's what i get to do as a player =) as an admin i wouldn't be posting anything related to any alliance affairs and keeping it stricly game based. again i'm trying to let you know the difference.. if blizzard banned every single guy who trolled on their forums, it would be a pretty empty place. i recommend you check out WoW's forums sometime. it puts the trolling here to shame ;) but if a game dev was trolling the forums, they would get reprimanded for it. see that difference?

i still believe you have some bias towards EVO, and its clearly evident. if i became a game admin, i would be biased towards LaF, and as a result i would make sure i stay out of LaF affairs because i will naturally be biased even if i try hard not to. it's the only way to do it. and that part is the part i am most bugged about that in respect to you being an admin.

if i was you, i would let a third party admin who's not in LaF or EVO (is there one?) address any issues related to LaF/EVO and stay quiet on EVO related threads.

don't take this too harshly. i'm not trying to make it a personal attack. i'm actually happy i can reach out to you like this directly since its still a small community. just like you i want you to be a successful admin so as much people as possible can enjoy the game so it can expand. if you mettle too much in in-game affairs, it will not bode well with the userbase as the game grows.

yes the untagged was the techer if i remember correctly. that's why everything just smelled fishy to me =)

yep yep just check any thread ghostcrawler is involved in

if anybody wants to see some fun admin related hijinks check out EVE

eve drama = best drama

This thread was about LaF. I never said you trolled Evo. You trolled me personally and the game. Here's a textbook example of trolling done by you in this thread:

"now i'm scared you actually coded part of this game

3035 / 1805 = 1.68

maybe next time you should put those SQL skill to good use and include the division operation as part of your select query ;)

and oh:

21537 / 11199 = 1.92

i can say we lost twice as much land, while doing 1.68x more hits.

i know i told pang a long time ago i was going to help him code boxcar/the game but i was too busy programming a real game instead. now i regret not doing it with such math fail i'm seeing right now :("


You're free to quit and to go back to your "real game" whenever you like. I didn't sign up to do this as my job. I don't particularly care to be lectured by someone who is trying to draw an equivalence between a community of 5 million players and a community of 500 players and who ignores the kind of behavior that he's suddenly so against even when it goes on in his own backyard.

The game isn't going to succeed if no one but the admins holds themselves to any kind of standard of behavior. Many of the problems in this game are caused by players who refuse to hold themselves to any kind of standards. I barely posted on AT for the past two months and I received zero credit for it. The game wasn't suddenly better because I stopped posting. Your argument is ridiculous.

You keep trying to relate it back to EVO. The mysql query doesn't return a different result because I was tagged EVO two months ago. I don't care if you think I'm biased because I pointed out LaF hypocrisy after holding it in for months.

About the two countries you mentioned? I see a lot of NW change similarities. It's more likely than not that the two countries were tech allied. I would ask the player who owns that country for an explanation, but he stopped playing his country a while ago and hasn't logged into evo's site in a week. If you had actually brought this up with EVO leadership at the appropriate time, you might have received a more complete answer.

EDIT: If you want to know why I started posting on AT now, it was because I wanted to blow off steam after someone nearly got away with running a bot in FFA. Such events can be frustrating.

i only said that 1.68 thing because you said we did twice as many hits because we were twice as big so it makes sense to get hit twice as much.

except i pulled out my calculator and it said 1.68. which tells me the proportions are in EVO's favor in the lack of hits getting received. its just anecdotal evidence however, so we can chalk it up to trolling, but you have to admit you were trying to prove why we lost 1.92x more land by saying we hit 2x as much, but it was clearly not the case and i felt obligated to point that out.

i'm sorry about jabbing at the SQL skills, that was trolling on my part but to be fair i put a smiley face so i hope you weren't personally offended, because it was meant to be a joke.

i apologize if it you took it personally, i will refrain from making jabs like that at you since you are taking it seriously.

i did not think the game was better, but i think some of your posts didn't help. your last posts are actually more logical now and hence why i've stop making stupid jokes towards you.

and thanks for the investigation. i am 100% sure the two countries were tech allied because i saw the spy op with my own bare two eyes, but its nice to see the nw change matched up.

i don't really care for the answer from evo tbh. i was originally just saying the reason why the FA package occured. i posted my answer to kingme very early on, but somehow dirty laundry had to be aired for everyone to be happy... why can't you just take my answer as the answer? i mean kingme asked for an answer, i supplied it to him and then everyone got their panties in a bunch (and ignored what i said) and then went off about LaF and chain FAing and market buyouts when it was not clearly the case. it is quite frustrating...

The whole reset minus last half hour : Many alliances farms their own members, land trade, FA chain, FA daily to help members to achieve high finishes. Slagpit doesn't say anything.

Last half hour of reset, two LaF members FA one member up to top 10 because they felt cheated by all the things that happened in the reset, and just to right a boat, something LaF has done for years, FAing into top 10 to counterbalance other alliances doing it to knock out LaF's legit top 10 finishes.

an Evo country got hit in the crossfire, and gets knocked down to 11th.

Slagpit comes out roaring and demands something, but nothing concrete, ignores suggestions of more transparent FA news logs, or not counting FA package networths in rankings.

The untags who avoid EVO happens EVERY RESET. But not everyone wants to come out crying to AT every time someone gets a little butt hurt.

And seriously? I'm pretty sure if LaF condones their members to do everything that has been going on with the land trade and hijinks like that, the whole top 50 would be pretty stuffed with LaF countries. But they don't.

I dont get it, if LaF wants to FA someone to the top then thats entirely fine by me. Its not cheating its just teamwork.

I understand its annoying to get pushed out of top10 but this is life. Next time around get your mates to do the same for you. The average over an alliance is the same no matter what.

I was almost right with the cheerios thing...


Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Not in bot running :P

good to know a bot got caught, sad it was tried though

btw if you get code for it or another would you want to run it locally to increase land availability next set with just a dumb allx type thing?

slagpit.. i took the time to dig the ally spy op for #782 from the boxcar archives.. note how both tech allies were EVO:

Allies as of Jan 07/11 8:03 PM

Defensive Alliances
Defensive Ally 1: Empty
Defensive Ally 2: Empty

Offensive Alliances
Offensive Ally 1: Empty
Offensive Ally 2: Empty
Offensive Ally 3: Empty

Research Alliances
Research Ally 1:RED STORM II (#406).
Research Ally 2:Stella Artois (#6).
Research Ally 3: Empty

Intelligence Alliances
Intel Ally 1: Empty
Intel Ally 2: Empty

Trade Pacts
Trade Ally 1: Empty
Trade Ally 2: Empty

and since everything is aired out now here's the summary of what this original thread asked:

Q: Do you guys care to admit what took place... or do I really have to waste time and post the proof for everyone to see?

A: #33 felt slighted by EVO this reset (i hope you guys can see why). #229 also happened to get randomly suicided with ABs and GSes (one was completely unprovoked). #229 was still a legit top 10 country despite that. #33 decides to FA #229 back up to the actual top 10 because he felt one good country is better than two screwed up countries. the fact that EVO was the one getting kicked out was probably gravy to #33 when you consider what happened to #33. Two/three countries is not a 1) market buyout 2) chain FA 3) representative of an entire alliance. if LaF as a whole was upset, there would be either a war or a visit to the FA team over at EVO by me complaining about it. this was clearly a non alliance stance related personal action by #33 and #229. it's up to you guys to judge whether its hypocrisy with what LaF's stance is in regards to market buyouts/mass FAing or not.

you guys can ignore everything else, i think its as clear and concrete as an answer to the original question.

lol i love how much conversation my country has generated

It is possible to get to 280 mill net without fa. The fact of the matter is i plan on getting there this set through war gains and strategery (as GWB calls it). I have no one to flame on this thread- seems its purely for entertainment so i wont flame anyone, other than to add my own personal humor. Anyone else planning to get to 280 mill net this set? I need a buddy up so high and all.

I've read this thread, and skimmed over it a couple times.

...and yet, still, the people who needed to answer my question STILL haven't answered it, despite it being posted on 2 separate threads!

One of the two evo countries allied with the untag was me (I'm the Stella Artois guy) Since he sent a pact, I simply accepted it without much thought.

I didn't even know that guy suicided on someone (check my playtimes, I was busy losing turns last set :p)

And I can also confirm that Slagpit isn't even playing in evo last set.. lol.

In my eyes, if you have a lower NW than the 10th guy, you deserve the t10 spot less than the guy you're pushing down, regardless of the other 5/6 aided countries.

I've found an easy solution though to all the fluffty "netgaining tactics" used nowadays - to net in the other server :p

Netting competition in team next set, DL?

heh diez , you sucked this set in EE! discuss

I worked hard to lose turns! I tried hard to forget playing earth!

Why do people still use spy ops to see tech allies, when they can simply go through ranks changes to find them? I know it takes a tiny bit longer than just using an extra turn, but still...

oh well... i liked your country name though =]

why, stella is disgusting...

ya it is , but it has a nice name hehe

Hrmm, this thread took off... anyway, was able to find those posts from SoF members:

Chevs
Member
Posts: 168
Quote Post
Jan 15th 2011, 18:57:19
oh plus there might be some evo buyouts or fa chains to get to t10.

i can say with certainty that sof will not be a part of any funny business this time around. at least of any organized sort.

----------------------------

Chevs
Member
Posts: 168
Quote Post
Jan 17th 2011, 13:49:35
Originally posted by locket:
from what I hear 1-2 sof techers who might be in there...
I think top legit finish will be lower this set though...



I'm 99% certain SoF will have 2 Top 10 finishes and yes they were both techers. I am also fairly confident in a 3rd, but none of these 3 countries received FA or buyouts of anysort and will not be receiving them either


Thought I remembered one of you guys saying such things. But, I also found this tidbit:

Chevs
Member
Posts: 168
Quote Post
Jan 28th 2011, 3:24:53
SoF hasn't FA'd anyone within SoF this set.

I'm sure you guys are smart enough to figure out the rest without flaming but I could be wrong

SOF FA


----

So, where did your top finisher get his FA/buyout from?

It seems like a good number of alliances have pulled some sort of FAing/buyouts to aid their top members.. is there anything downright wrong with that? Nope, not at all.

Some alliances do it, some alliance don't. Same thing with landgrabbing within your own tag.

This thread is silly.

Going for the triple post here!

Also, if SOF's top finish was unaided then I apologize for even mentioning him.. It's just that I was thinking the roof for a unaided finish was like 175mil-200mil NW, but I've had a person tell me that's way off so I could wrong on that.

HOW HARD IS IT TO COMPREHEND THE fluffING DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DOING THING A AND PUBLICLY SAYING REPEATEDLY THAT YOU NEVER DO THING A ONLY TO DO THING A ANYWAYS. YOU PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DRIVE ME fluffING INSANE

...which is exactly why we're all here. Please come again.

i already addressed all i can say. sorry if it still drives you insane ;)

it depends on what strat people are playing. i think the roof for a techer this set was about 260M. the roof for a farmer was probably about 230M. Anything significantly higher than that was definitely aided.

I'm here for the hot chicks...

.. and helping to drive Bobby fluffING INSANE!

Ahh, my highest finish was rank 25, so that shows you how much I know.. hehe

yah you can't set a hard roof for unaided finish. it depends on the market conditions. LT and highrock are examples of people who pushed the boundaries for farmer and techer this reset based on the conditions.

casher is a bit sad/left behind though. we'll see if this is a trend but i already notified pang privately that i think casher is a little underpowered compared to techer/farmer and probably requires a balance.

the whole $39 vs $32 food floor changed things quite a bit

yea i think it's hard to set a roof for casher and techer, but I think farmer is much more predictable. I think you can almost calculate pretty closely how well a farmer can finish given a certain amount of land because farmers are pretty much immune to market conditions after mid-reset. They know they will probably dump food for $39 (unless they do massive bushel reselling or dumping at high prices and then holding cash), so all you need to do is calculate how much production they get per turn, roughly estimate their stock, multiply by $39, and then calculate a jump. So it's pretty obvious that Mr Silver and oats had aid because there's pretty much no way they can produce that much stock by themselves as farmers. Techers and cashers are much more dependent on the market.

I was talking to trife not you hanlong...

i just browsed this thread

a lot of that discussion is unfortunate to see coming from LaFfers :(

it's actually kind of nice to not be in the middle of a heated debate for once. :P

While active, Hanlong has always been a avid defender of LaF on AT (I understand, because I am too!), so Hanlong's posts shouldn't be surprising :P

expect my official FA response in about 7 days once i've managed to get through all 200 replies.

lol

While being in the Omega tag?

the set hadn't started yet (time of my post). it officially has now, so i guess i'll keep quiet :/

Might have to change the sig too? :P

Nah, cos it was all an elaborate hoax.

--
anyway, i couldn't care less about aid and fa. i stopped bothering years ago.

if hanlong and laf did claim that they would never used such tactics and then did so, then that would be hypocritical. but who am i to tell laf what is or isnt right?

everyone has their own set of "values". we could argue all day and never all agree.

(note: i haven't read anything apart from the initial post)

200!