It wasn't? I call bullfluff..

Oct 13th 2010, 19:57:13
None of the fighting alliances can be considered to be #1 until such a time that they fight other fighting alliances of similar or equal size. SoL vs sof would be a good start.

Oct 17th 2010, 17:52:58
when was the last time SOL fought a fighting alliance?

Oct 17th 2010, 18:57:39
sof is almost exact same number of members SoL is.
Both are fighting alliances.
Start there, perhaps?
SoL is DP'ed to all the fighting alliances. That is unnatural and hurting the server. That is my core argument.

Dec 2nd 2010, 22:00:09
sof vs SoL would be good to see though... one of those two is the best "war alliance" in terms of being able to effectively kill countries.

Jan 15th 2011, 0:55:33
@SOL - fight someone challenging for a change next set... sof would be good



Both SoL/SoF have built their alliances from numbers that were less than LaF, LCN etc as recently as 3 resets ago. Don't get lazy and blame balance on your inability to match these efforts.



Stop trying to script the game. It evolves naturally. You really think SOL and SOF will be pacted forever? You're a massive control freak.



The onus is NOT on SOL and SOF just because they are bigger and better than your alliance and your best buddies other alliance in EVO. There are other ways to incite change than to use your admin soapbox to encourage alliances to change their pact lists.

This is counter productive and harmful to the game. I don't trust you when you speak about SOL and the reason why is your vitriol against SOL, posted below.

SOL has no reason to believe you want to act in their best interests Pang when you are the one who is responsible for the following attacks on their alliance. Apologise, retract or insist your views have changed..

Aug 25th 2010, 19:26:54
wow, SOL lies again

Sep 7th 2010, 13:43:49
I'd think long and hard about your alliance with SOL
LaF had an FDP with them for a long time, and this is how it turns out :)

this is how it always turns out for ALL of SOL's allies.... they just hit you, then talk fluff about you, and flame you. So you guys should look forward to that

Sep 23rd 2010, 19:28:36
i'm not questioning whether stewy was a "good leader" or anyting... I'm just saying that it displays the kind of character SOL leaders have to basically lie to their membership about who is actually leading their alliance

Sep 23rd 2010, 19:51:39
I always thought it was kind of weird that SOL, after being beaten fluffless by IX for so long would allow one of their heads to come and join up and lead the alliance, while the members are kept in the dark.

Sep 23rd 2010, 19:51:39
I guess SOL isn't known for transparency anyways... even to their own members it seems

Oct 4th 2010, 14:03:48
I predict NA vs SOL this set in a battle of whose retal policy is stupider and more convoluted

Oct 9th 2010, 15:11:29
ya, maki doesn't actually like try to be accurate very often anymore... just tries to spin it in a pro-SOL way

Oct 9th 2010, 14:39:38
SOL has 1 good war set and you claim they're the #1 fighters? :p
even after they got their asses handed to them the previous set by netters, because they weren't effectively able to blindside them for a change

Oct 17th 2010, 18:30:33
SoL has been ambushing netters since EE started

Oct 17th 2010, 20:15:59
What I'm talking about is how fighters, namely SOL, have generally stopped fighting eachother and just pact eachother and rotate which netters they hit

Oct 17th 2010, 17:36:00
SOL is killing this server.

Oct 24th 2010, 21:06:53
as for first punches... does running around the server and spreading untruths count as the "first punch"? if so, SOL never stopped punching from last round.

Oct 24th 2010, 22:20:44
I don't believe for a second that SOL doesn't have spies in LaF.

Oct 25th 2010, 20:57:16
@SOL - seriously, for a war alliance who was given the war you want, you guys sure do mouth off and complain a lot

Oct 25th 2010, 20:35:13
the funny thing about SPIN is that it changes so much from set to set, when it comes from SOL

Oct 25th 2010, 20:23:56
you SOL'ers should shut up on AT... you guys don't really do yourselves any favours with your attempted SPIN

Oct 26th 2010, 2:56:17
why does SOL have to try and make everything so drama filled? This is a war we can all sit back and enjoy... i called that this kind of crap spewing would start (from SOL) in another thread. It's unfortunate, but expected.

Oct 28th 2010, 20:01:30
I don't actually spin things, SOL's just tries to spin it so that I am seen as a spinner.

Nov 2nd 2010, 23:09:37
but just because SOL pulls the wool over their members eyes, use trolling as a 'legitimate' political tactic and always take the low road doesn't mean that other alliances do

Nov 4th 2010, 20:21:40
wow, SOL trolls are quick to turn a nice walling based thread into a trashtalking one!

Nov 4th 2010, 20:32:48
then keep discussing that... or is this the part of the SOL war strategy where it switches from ingame killing to AT bashing, like last set? :p

Nov 13th 2010, 5:36:22
bobby's getting the typical SOL training, it seems.

birds of a feather and all that...

Nov 29th 2010, 19:05:44
SOL members have been on a campaign to smear netters for abusing untaggeds

Nov 29th 2010, 19:04:03
SOL needs to get a handle on their members... or has SOL given up entirely on PR

Jan 12th 2011, 15:44:53
I guess it kind of shows how long you will be friends with SoL for -- unless you're sof

Jan 15th 2011, 0:29:47
ironic, given SOL's history with abusing policing earlier this set

Dec 21st 2010, 15:20:20
I hope Ivan's gift to sof for Christmas is him stepping down as dictator of the alliance.

can you sum that up in a nutshell?

some of those posts are from 6 mos ago, three sets back. different times...

I dont' see how the points relate.

You take posts he made wearing his alliance player hat, and tried to connect them to statements he made wearing his administrators hat.

So the question is: Are you too stupid to see the difference, or are you hoping that your audience is too stupid to see it?

goodbye biffbuff.

like I said, trying to tie in-game things to admin things will get you banned, and this one is a year. enjoy your year off the forums. cherrypicking quotes from several rounds ago is dumb -- SoL said absolutely horrible things about me, my alliance and others in the past while I was still playing. I'm playing for another 8 hours and then I'm done for good... if you don't get that, then that's your problem, but to try and continually make those kind of connections is incorrect and I've had enough of it. you can disagree with me without needing to attack me and my credibility -- others do it all the time.

i'll leave the thread, as it just shows the dumbness he brings to this argument.

calling on the two strongest alliances to do positive things for the game is the exact type of thing the admins should do. forcing them to do it is certainly not -- at least not at this point (everyone's playing within the rules)

anyways, enjoy the year off.

lol what a wasted time it was to search threw the threads copy and paste, wow

Its a little sad you took the time to find those posts buffbiff.

lol 2 seconds apart, see

how did any of that deserve a ban? let alone a 1yr?

it's like the 12th time this has happened -- trying to slam an admin for things they did while playing, which were not at all related to being an admin, is something we've cracked down on.

we're completely transparent as an admin staff, so to have these type of threads be created over and over again is a pointless distraction so the decision was made to just toss them/toss the poster if they keep up.

fair enough.

i apologize if it has been discussed to death already. however, i do see his concern that admins (whether they are playing or not) have alliances that they like/dislike

as an admin, I don't favour or work against any alliance, and the assertion that I do it something I'll stand up against, as it's absolutely untrue.

as a player/leader, I played and lead for my alliance, but as an admin that's always been on an even keel for everyone. that's why no one actually has anything constructive to cite as me being biased, other than cherrypicked posts I made as a player.

ask SoF or SoL leaders how their interactions have gone with me and slag re: deletions or anything of that nature. the results are always highly positive and everyone walks away happy.

I don't care if people want to attack me for the things I do as an admin or the things I did as a player, but when someone tries to connect the two and make false accusations about what I do/believe as an admin, thats when it crosses the line. and like I said, this is not even close to the first time.

This all could be solved if you made a second account called "Pang LAF"

Not trying to troll, just putting it out there. Also, I realize this is redundant since you are retiring, but such a format would be very helpful in the future if any of the admins wanted to lead alliances in the various servers. I know I had talked to Slagpit about creating an alias and he had declined doing so long ago because he thought it would be discrediting, but an obvious alias would be helpful.

wowza at a one year ban...

aponic, I think people like Biffbuff are just looking for something to complain about and would do it anyways. Other people would just agree with pang more in that situation :P

I agree with slag -- we didn't have anything to hide, so why should we hide behind an alias? but ya, it's moot at this point.... I'm done anyways as I don't have the time to keep playing and to be frank, this server's not the kind of place I even want to play at this point, compared to the other servers.

BiffBuff/Deerhunters/Dagga's personal trolling of the admins is not good for the game and I'm glad to see that 2 (i think Spinner's banned as well) of them won't be posting their drivel for awhile.

Also:

'This all could be solved if you made a second account called "Pang LAF"'

I'm pretty sure Pang's responded to this point about a brazzillion times. Maybe even eleventy brazzillion times.

never look back when your walking cause you will bump into something :)

How was he tying your ingame related activities to you as an admin? Nowhere in this post did he mention your role as an admin. He was attacking your role as a player, which is, I assume, the role you are taking when you make political posts?

"There are other ways to incite change than to use your admin soapbox to encourage alliances to change their pact lists."

This is great. Good job mods/admins.

The admins do a great job.

My point was simply that the debate of this thread is of one individual being viewed in two lights, admin and player. My suggestion was that making one alias (obviously still you) to post as a player, and one to post as an admin would be a very simple way to solve the problem.

I could really care less about who gets banned and why. I just don't like arguments that center around confusion.

i always thought of pang the player like dragonlance the player...


we are douchebags ;-)


and Pang the Admin, like Dlance the party animal.. we are heros.

I read that last line as "we are hoes"

:P

that too...;-)

Bigbuff im sorry but you are an idiot...a big one
everything Pang said is excatly what any normal person would say
i would say the exact same thing he did...he makes valid points
i like war and only play in warring alliances btw

use the other half of your brain for a few minutes.

he took qoutes from when pang was leading LaF and they were at war with said clan MONTHS ago, and mixing them with statements when pang had already announced his retirement from the server within the last couple days.

Pang. Keep up the good admin work and enjoy playing the game. People are just being pricks. Thanks for your time and commitment to this game

Pang is player, and thus he is allowed to influence the game as much as anyone else? Being the admin shouldn't restrict this.

too much scrolling down.
didnt bother to read anything.

any thing that comes as a huge convo paste is stupid. if there was something wrong it could have been resumed in 2 lines

we need an ignore button :P

There is an ignore button...click on the user you want to ignore to pull up his/her profile, and click the ignore button.

... or not :D

PiffPiff gone for a year... thank god. That is single handedly the biggest improvement ever made for this game.

Now I have one more reason not to look forward to 2012.

Holy copy and paste!

First, the only time i have made attacks against Pang was when my clan was warring his. That is not slamming an admin- that is slamming someone im at war with.

This Banning of BiffBuff is complete horse dung!!! I believe that if an admin wants to play in game thats fine. However, they should expect to be fair game just like everyone else in the forums. Otherwise dont play in game. See, you can piss someone off in game or whit what you say thats game related and when they hammer you back for it you call them a troll and ban them. Thats crap. You dont see me on every thread attacking every admin? No. Thats because ive only said things or gone after ones that ive had issues in thats game related (like Pang). There is nothing wrong with that. If im in a clan and he is in a rival clan- how do i not have the right to say things against him? If admins are tired of getting their feelings hurt- dont do both or grow a little skin.


Trying to play all high and mighty and giving a 1 year ban for this is ridiculous. I hope you see the folly in your decision and lift that ban- cause it makes you as an admin look like a bitter old woman. Its really in poor taste. Just like with governments- the people should have the right to disagree. If someone says something about me (calling me a troll ect) i can ignore them or set the record straight. But using your power to completely shut off someone who was not cussing, using foul language ect is lame. Its mor ethe act of a dictator. Seriously, think about it. I dont care if you dont like me- i dont give a crap- but what your doing is wrong and you know it.

My response here is not trolling- its speaking what i believe. And its bannings like this that make me SOMETIMES wish this server would fail. It puts a really foul taste in ones mouth.


Unbann BiffBuff- you know its the right thing to do.

Remember condemning someone for dissent if what a dictator wold do. I know you guys are not dictators. Maybe not elected either but not dictators. So please, don't behave like one.

The difference between your last post and his posts are that he has been attacking their admin credibility etc. You wont get banned if you tell Pang he is an idiot and laf sucks or w/e. Within reason of course ;) Pissing off admins to test them is dumb

BTW- even if you try to stay completely separated from in game and as an admin don't you think it possible for there to be a little bias there? I mean, isnt that why judges cant judge people the know???


And even if you were Christ like perfect, better than any judge who cant not be bias- is it not reasonable to expect some people to SUSPECT and even assume that there is some crossing between or bias between ingame and as an admin?


I know this is a valid point. Im sure you guys TRY to be fair and not biased but come on- judges know they are influenced when they know people- or at least they have the wisdom to see that people would assume they would be bias and remove themselves from the case. That alone should be enough reason to understand where BiffBuff was coming from. You see- i didnt argue above for his position- but i understand his thought process and i dont believe it merits a ban.


Judges dont like people thinking they are corrupt or bias. I know you admins want to play the game- i dont blame you. But grow some thick skin where people think you bias because you do both. Expect it. And remember the judges and you shold be ok- knowing you did your best.

Locket- judges know people would attack their credibility if they tried someone they knew. Thats why they dont do it. Its to be expected. Same for politicians. If they give a pardon to someone, even if it has merit- if someone found out that politician knew the person the pardoned- people would scream bias or corruption. You know they would. It should be expected. Right or wrong its just human nature.

Do you see how that does NOT deserve a ban?

I would love to see an admin respond to my posts. Pang feel free. Im asking for it. Reason being id like to know how you guys can justify how your position is any different from a judge or politician? I dont understand so please enlighten me. I do understand you not likeing him or hating him ect. But i dont get your reasoning or belief that people should not be able to say anything to the nature of an admin mixing ingame play and their admin duties. I dont get why you cant turn a blind eye or ignore those kinds of comments. The server will see you and judge you by your behavior- what some few people do or say should not upset you in the slightest. Please explain why it does so much or why you feel your any different from the judge or politician i mentioned above. Cause if there is no reason then you need to unbann biffbuff and relax a little.

Thats why it isn't going to be one single admin who makes a decision to ban someone for a year. If other admins felt it was the wrong choice they'd reverse it. They aren't scared to tell people they were wrong.

If biffbuff had kept stuff reasonable he wouldn't be banned.

"There are other ways to incite change than to use your admin soapbox to encourage alliances to change their pact lists. "

Thats just a very small sample of biff's genious.

Pang wants his game to succeed. He isn't going to make admin decisions that go against any one particular alliance or you would have seen evidence and laf dominating by now. Or evo with their 2 admins.

Also, pang got in lots of arguments with people when he was active in laf to defend his clan and none of them are banned. He is different then a judge in your scenario because we have like 50-75 active forum posters on alliance. How can any "judge" in that sample size not know people? Thats why they have backup measures.

Eg) I am sure slag or qz saw this and they spoke with Pang and came to an agreement on the punishment.

Locket what biffbuff said is irrelevant. So what if he said "There are other ways to incite change than to use your admin soapbox to encourage alliances to change their pact lists. " ---Who cares? It harms no one. It doesnt even matter if its true or not. The whole point is that its to be expected for some people to scream corruption and bias when a admin is playing ingame and being an admin. How good they are or if the comments are true is irrelevant. Thats my point and thats why he should be unbanned.

DH get yur ass off AT :-P

Also locket- i argued with Pang when SOL was warring LAF and i was banned for a time then (for no good reason).

The only reason i flamed pang was because we war warring them and when i war a clan i war with ingame messages and here. I do all i can to win. Its not personal- none of it is. But Pangs feelings gut hurt and i got banned. All the constant banning is going to far. let the people speak and the srever will sort out the crap.

Makinso, everything ive said here is completely true. Im waiting to hear from an admin. Im patient and am being very respectful. I just want to understand. There should be nothing wrong with that.

True enough I've never seen you post politely ;)

Just take it easy. No flaming around :)