ty

Cut them some slack man, it's not a decade yet!

Ideally you grab so that you dont need any SDI tech. Make sure that everyone you double-tap or more either dont have missiles or are out of your humanitarians range.

Galleri already said I won!

Solution:
1. Put 25 bots on this server. [only dev action required]
2. If you didn't kill a suicider/rule breaker or participated in a mutual 1vs1 war this set or last you are not allowed to grab the bots, and the whole server will farm/maim/kill you if you do.
If you wall the mod will delete you.
If the mod sees you before the rest of the server, the mod will delete you.
3. All tags that did not exist last set are considered suiciders until each country is claimed by a known and reputable forum nick or until they kill a suicider not in their tag. If they don't they will not be deleted but are fair game to farm, FS, maim at will.
4. All tags that broke the server rules last set, did not participate in a mutual 1vs1 last set and did not score a kill on a suicider are considered new tags this set until they do. War tags are encouraged to FS these tags
5. All hits on tags that are not considered suiciders are against the rules. You will get killed or deleted unless the defending tag accepts your apology for hitting the wrong number. Defending tag may chose to retal without being considered rule breakers.
6. Mutual wars between any 2 willing parties will be policed by the entire server so they are indeed 1vs1 or whichever constallation was agreed. Any tag may also post on the board that they welcome an FS in case that is how they want to war. In such a case FSing this tag is not to be considered rule breaking.
7. Profit.

The only dev action needed will be to add the 25 bots. And if the mod goes offline for a set the server polices itself.

This creates something to do for killers, forces netters to take action against suiciders(and police the server with/for the killers) if they want to farm the bots, and at least improves the market. It also creates a way to make sure 1vs1 wars are kept 1vs1.

When ZigZag was netting and ZagZig wargaining six of the seven times either of them were FSed it was done to the netters in ZigZag(and once to both tags at the same time). Weedy used to sometimes just quit taking turns when they got hit and they got hit more times than ZagZig were during my combined sets in team server.

There is no way anyone thought our netters in ZigZag or any of our friends like weedy or Top10 for instance would declare war on someone in defence of ZagZig. So hitting ZagZig was a guaranteed recipie for a 1vs1 because they were always meant to kill/war and everyone knew it. That never happened.
So your theory of alliances stopping 1vs1 does not hold up to the slightest bit of scrutiny. No one that FSed any of the ZZs or weedy for that matter wanted a war. They wanted to ruin some netters set rather than have a real war.

This has always been one of the main problems with the server and why I think this morphing the server into alliance v2.0 is a neccesary evil as long as there are no formula/mechanic/bot changes that break the status quo. If this change was just putting lipstick on a pig I'd be for it, just change for the sake of change. But the most immediate effects this will have is it will run netters off the server as they will supercharge suiciders and remove perhaps the only counterplay a netting tag has to getting bullied by war tags reset after reset.

Fair 5:5 wars in which a third tag can farm one of the other tags? What constitutes war is special attacks + missiles + hostile spy ops I guess, otherwise you'd get deleted for grabbing a tag that was suicided, even if the suicide was with ops.

You need to clearly define what is a tag and what constitutes war and for how long a tag is considered at war after aggressions end for this to work.

I have never been deleted and intend to keep it that way by never stepping into grey areas. Thats very easy today, I have asked a mod for guidance once in the past year, thats it. Unless these rules are very clearly defined it won't be easy at all anymore on team server.

There is nothing in the current rules that stops 5vs5 wars from happening. The reason it doesnt happen more often is that one side is generally uninterested in warring altogether. Some tags solve this by going inactive when they get FSed, others call in allies. It's the fact that you generally dont find two evenly matched teams that want to war each others that is the problem. It's a problem of game size and lack of motivation to war.

As with any ruleset people will find ways to use them to their favor. I know who benefits and how I will use the proposed ruleset to my favor, and it will create a worse environment than we have now.

I'm sure we can create better suggestions than this, tho. :)

I also dont like this notion "do anything because its bad now" because yeah it is bad but adding a not thought through set of rules to that is not going to help us, will it? And it also risks to stick for 3 years or take so much time to police that other servers get neglected.

So do it right or not at all.

There is 0, ZERO, merit to saying the problems of team server of the last 3 years would have been alleviated with the presently suggested rules change.

Celphi the express example is silly because collusion is against the rules while on tagged servers the whole point is the collusion.
There very few grey areas in express, its mainly what the mod can prove and what the mod notices that decides if someone is deleted or not. That will not be the case here. Its much more complex with tags than with players, as the possible combinations of events are orders of magnitudes larger.

You will have to define what is war, what is a legit tag etc in order to remove the grey areas. That has not been done yet.
The rules as they are written now are bad and will not result in the server improvement anyone seeks. Rewrite them and that may change. I'm not against a rule change, just these rules.

My examples are gray areas that will come up all the time.
I'm especially against supercharging suiciding. Should we make untagged+ tags of 1-2 considered fair game to collude with other tags against?
This will be an issue 5-20 times each set. You can't avoid addressing this.

I have also played team more than you in the past 3 years and have only taken 4 sets off in that time so yeah I do have a say.
Further, the problem you mean to adress is not and have not for a long time at least been the main issue on team server.

I struggle to see a reason to make suiciding stronger on this server, that has never been an issue.

I can imagine rules can be made that will create a better atmosphere but these are not it, imo.

Scenario 1: Ok so Im an untagged suicider. I will suicide say hcnfc or whatever they are called.

hcnfc kills me together with their sister tags. All is well.


Scenario 2: What if I tag up as a 1 man tag and hit them? Now they cant hit me with any other tag than the one that got hit?
If they cant that means we have just made suiciders stronger on team server.

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Another problem I see:

Tag A wants war with Tag B. Tag B wants none of it. A friend of tag B creates a tag and sends 5 EMs and 20 GS and declares war on tag B. They are now safe from tag A and can net in peace all set.

alternatively tag B just realized that tag A is gonna FS them, they have a friend create tag C who FSs them really ineffectively, they then store up turns and FS tag B who could not hit them at the time they wanted. Im not saying this is a disaster it might make the war more even, but its still a bit odd and not intended consequence depending on how we define these rules

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I think regardless its game mechanic changes that are needed to adress a dead market and the overpowered suiciders on this (and some other) server.

The only thing I heard is they said it was unlikely that it was deliberately lit because they thing it started near the roof which is hard to get to and its unusual that a deliberate fire is started so high in a building.

They are sayng electrical error is most likely.

I think the power will be cut to QZs wardrobe server at one point. Maybe the cord will be bitten by rats or a short-circuit or overheating, and QZ will not notice for 2-3 weeks, by the time he does enough people will have gotten used to not playing that the critical mass to make the community/game interesting will be well above the number of players still playing and it will just die rather quickly from then on.

The effort is pointless anyway. Even if by some miracle QZ shows up and actually starts making changes, this server is in tip top shape according to some. So its very unlikely that new changes will be made that are controversial when easy quick fixes like the 8 year running ally losses display is still not working.

Afaiu QZ would make formula/game changes and Pang is mostly working on the UI. so we would be looking to QZ for changes on the team server. After he makes some of the 10 other changes the game is in need of more urgently.

Marshal is wrong. It's too late for a casher to build CS. Also for techer ofc. A farmer or indy could do it perhaps just because it doesn't cost them as much.

I got up at 10:30.

Why would hcncf or whatever they call themselves be responsible for Celphi at all? why would anyone. Afaik no one is controlling him and his agenda is his own(together perhaps with those who willingly join his quest) and so are his methods. Its not even certain he is playing this set.

Your response mainly works to give you more enemies and/or drive innocent people away from the game.

This server still seems as great as when I left it. Good to know. :)

I spoke a bit in person with Vicvixvi but mostly on the boards and in ingame messages in express and only realizing who we each were at the very end of the reset.

I think what makes this community interesting are the unique ideas that different players bring as ingredients to this soup that is AT, ET, and whereever else we speak. Some people come with ideas that 500 people had before them. This was not VicVixvi, he had unique ideas that made us think, some of which made me and probably others better. I can't say that about just anyone. He was an intelligent player who's contribution to this community is part of the reason this game is joyful to me. I can only hope he had a good time here as well.

My heartfelt condolences to his family.

RIP Vicvixvi

That they do. But they are not effective enough at doing that to warrant running them for that purpose alone. So MBs are used in some servers for some strategies to jump with.

15-20 can be way too much or a tenth of what you need depending on your situation and purpose. You kinda feel that out with experience and look at what the others have.

the most important thing is that you learn to press out as much efficiency in goods/money production out of every acre of your country, the secondary thing is getting as many acres as you can as early as you can. Only that secondary task is made easier with more spies. Spies are the only essential resource in this game that you cant buy.

Ohh and yeah the only reason the non-indy strats need some ICs is because they need spies. its not for jets/turrets/tanks/troops at all.

Dont build military bases. Industrial complexes and construction sites are the only off-strat buildings you should generally have if you are a techer or casher. If you are a fascist farmer you can have some rigs too, and sometimes if you are an indy or a non-fascist farmer you will be better off building some few rigs for your own use when the market is particularily empty of oil.

Specialization is key in this game.

Casher:
other than your CS (construction sites) and ICs(industrial complexes) you build about 50/50 enterprise zones and residentials. Specialization is extremely important due to necessary synergies between your buildings and their formulas.

Techer: other than your CS and ICs you build 100% labs. Specialization is extremely important due to the tech per turn formula.

Indy: Ideally you only build ICs and CS. Specialization is key but the building formulas don't punish you.

Farmer: Ideally you only Farms except for your ICs and CS. If you are a facsist you probably can use rigs too. Specialization is key but the building formulas don't punish you.


The reason you want to specialize with a farmer and indy even tho the building formulas dont punish you is because you spend all your resources on just one main tech and your government and playstyle will be set to benefit you most when building on-strat buildings.

If you spend all your extra cash on indy tech and you are a commie indy you dont want farms because they will produce less than 1/3 of the value of goods as your ICs produce. Just build on strat buildings and use the market.

I think it would be interesting dive deeper into this. Which job would you most hope Marshal has and which job do you least want him doing?

IF a pair or group of players are colluding to create land for themselves and/or to boost themselves in other ways I'd be far more worried about it if they finished 1 and 2 than if they are looking to finish 12 and 29. :)

I doubt it but either way it wont work to their advantage doing it that way. Land trading is not easy to do if you wanna beat conventional grabbing, and that nuke that landed does not help.

I was never the target tho since I change my name every reset to avoid such BS. I still dont like that it happened to others tho. :(

Yeah as I said that has been the situation in primary for as long as I know, and been the way in express as well until a year ago when a group of players decided to collude against those who did properly retaliate against multi-taps. And because the devs were absent as always they didnt respond and give the mods tools to delete them.

I think its pretty reasonable.

You got 3 choices for how to respond to a double-tap(or RoR):
1. you retal once or not at all on a double tap and let the guy farm you more because you are not gonna break GDI. This is a horrible choice if you want to have a productive reset, ofcourse you could do it just to bide your time and hit harder later, but then its really #3 you are doing; see below.
2. you retal twice or more and give the first strike to the offender, which is generally a bad idea.
3. you retal hard and take the first strike opportunity you have been given.

Now #3 looks different in express versus primary. In express it means killing the offender but in primary it means maybe 2-3 landgrabs and some ABs and missiles or just the ABs and missiles.

Same situation as express. You have to stand up against double taps, except there a band of 6-7 players have colluded for a year to run anyone out of the game who retals double taps with more than a double tap back thereby forcing the defender to give the FS to the aggressor or be hit by the colluders reset after reset.

If you kill people for retalling a retal PS/LCN are going to collude to run you off the server.

AOC can't be VP candidate in 2020 without significant changes to the constitution. You americans should know your constitution if you are gonna argue it still makes sense two centuries after it was written.

If you stole tech from me in a dream you better wake up and apologize.

of

Only if you swallow! Those are empty calories.

I hate it when that happens...

isnt sinistrils 11b still the NW record?

Yeah the different servers still offer different things even tho the developers seem to have abandoned us.

standing NW records on ffa, express and alliance are techers.

just halve the units created by oil. staight up. it will be balanced by players.

not really. 0 and 20 spal might make the difference between 0 and 1 fail a day.

Dude, jokes on you because its not milk.