Yeah Mak I have tried it a few more times since but I have to say I am not that good at it. All these kids just run in circles around me. :)

Servant, the problem I have with this is that I do not believe that religious people will ever be able to do what you are claiming. They will always be busy trying to convert (or in worst case also kill) those that are not of their specific brand of religion that they will not be able to cooperate and actually build a better world. To be quite honest I dont even think many religions are even interested in building a better world and a fairer place for all. They simply seem to want to maintain a position of power that they have had for a very long time and will do that to whatever the cost may be.

This is really why I dont think what you say is possible to achieve with the religous people of today and this is why I keep arguing the point whenever I can (or feel like arguing). :-)

The best middle ground I can think of is to have a totally secular state in all countries on the planet, then at least we are starting to get somewhere. Then just keep educating people all over the world and religion will keep fading away into oblivion on its own. Or at least so I can hope.

Not to worry Orkin, I wasnt really arguing with you there, I was merely making an observation that many Xtians confuse the two subjects and incorrectly make assumptions about them. It was jus something to post in between waiting for your next post so I had something more to argue with. Got to amuse myself somehow! :-)

I think on this season in 3v3 play (even though I won the first game I played to rank in) I only got Gold rank, which is really crap as I very rarely go into anything less than platinum rank.

But I suppose I am not so good at SC2 as I think. Its still a blast and if anyone wants to play with me at some point look me up on bnet, my username there is dbdvilse. I play in the evenings Euro time quite often, sometimes Makinso joins me as well. :)

I find it really hilarious that religious people often try to equate Communism to Atheism, that comparison is simply ludicrous.

Communism is not, however, inherently atheistic. It is possible to hold communist or socialist economic views while being a theist and it isn't at all uncommon to be an atheist while staunchly defending capitalism — a combination often found among Objectivists and Libertarians, for example. Their existence alone demonstrates, without question, that atheism and communism are not the same thing.

But while the original myth has been refuted, it is interesting to look and see if perhaps the Christians who made it have gotten things backwards. Perhaps it is Christianity which is inherently communistic? After all, there is nothing in the gospels which even so much as suggests a divine preference for capitalism. On the contrary, quite a bit of what Jesus said directly supports many of the emotional foundations of socialism and even communism. He specifically said that that people should give all they could to the poor and that "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

On Adolf Hitler...

Christians have been trying to discredit Hitler's faith for decades, turning their eyes away from history books. From the earliest formation of the Nazi party he expressed his Christian support to the German citizenry and soldiers. He was baptized as Roman Catholic in Austria, attended a monastery school and was a communicant and an altar boy in the Catholic Church. He was confirmed as a "soldier of Christ" and his goal was to become a priest. He was never excommunicated or condemned and the church had stated that he was "Avenging for God" in attacking the Jews for they deemed the Semites the killers of Jesus. Look it up!

Hitler was given veto power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany and forged a treaty whereas the National Socialist state was officially recognized by the Catholic Church. In a letter to the Nazi party, he wrote "…this treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism is hostile to religion is a lie."

He allied with Pope Pius in converting German society and made a deal with the church whereas the church absorbed Nazi ideals and preached them as part of their sermons, and in turn, Hitler placed Catholic teachings in public education. This lead to Hitler enacting doctrines of the Church as law. He outlawed all abortion, raged a death war on all homosexuals, and demanded corporal punishment in schools and home.

He was quoted as stating,


"The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity. It will be its honest endeavor to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines (Lehren), and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of today…Providence has caused me to be Catholic, and I know therefore how to handle this Church."

In fact, the Holocaust grew out of Hitler's Christian education due mainly to Jews having an inferior status in Christian Austria and Germany. The Christians there blamed the Jews for the killing of Jesus and the hatred that Hitler fostered against Jewish people began from the preaching of Catholic priests and Protestant ministers throughout Germany. It is well known that Martin Luther held a livid hatred for Jews and their religion. Luther wrote a book titled "On the Jews and their Lies" which set the standard for Jewish hatred all the way up to World War 2. Hitler, of course, expressed a great admiration for Luther.

The Nazis began to control schools insisting that Christianity was taught. They included anti-Semitic Christian writings in textbooks and were not removed from Christian doctrines until 1961. Nazi soldiers wore religious symbols and placed religious sayings on military gear. The official army belt buckle read "God With Us". They got sprinkled with holy water and listened to Catholic sermons before going out on maneuvers. The Nazis had a secret service called the "SS Reich" that would act as spies on the dealings of other citizens and if anyone was suspected of heresy they would be prosecuted.

Here are a few quotes from Hitler:

"We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out." -Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933


"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people." -Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922


"Christianity could not content itself with building up its own altar; it was absolutely forced to undertake the destruction of the heathen altars. Only from this fanatical intolerance could its apodictic faith take form; this intolerance is, in fact, its absolute presupposition." -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf


"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

Had enough of Hitler? OK, let's move on to Stalin:

Joseph Stalin was raised to be a Catholic Priest and I remain curious as to why his Christianity is shoved aside in all these arguments. Yes, there is no way to get around the fact that in his early career, Stalin made a vast effort to rid Russia of religion, but that had nothing to do with atheism. It was the only way he knew to seize power of the country.

For generations the entire populace of Russia had been taught that the head of state was supposed to be close to god. At the time in question, the head of the church in Russia was a tyrant. The Russians were already disposed to servility and all Stalin did was exploit these two facts, and place himself in the position of god. Once Stalin was firmly seated in office, he revived the Russian Orthodox Church in order to intensify patriotic support for the war effort. Stalin was part of a council convened to elected a new church Patriarch. Then the Russian theological schools were opened, and thousands of churches began to function. Even the Moscow Theological Academy Seminary was re-opened, after being closed since 1918.

So, while Stalin was no peach, he was not exactly what you would call a died-in-the-wool atheist. He was more a secular minded religious opportunist, which is a personal character trait. He did not use atheism to gain control, but religious principles that were modified to fit his own, sick and twisted method of revolution.

What about Pol Pot? (As mentioned before, and no, I am not wrong, YOU are)

Truly a monster, having killed some twenty-five percent of the entire population of Cambodia. Pol Pot targeted not just different religions, but education, science and medicine in his quest for total domination. Now, let's take a head count of atheists who are against education, science and medicine. Thought so... Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge were composed of Buddhists and Pol Pot was a Theravada Buddhist. He studied at a Buddhist monastery and then at a Catholic school for 8 years. Cambodia's communism was influenced by Theravada Buddhism.

Prince Norodom Sihanouk said, "Pol Pot does not believe in God but he thinks that heaven, destiny, wants him to guide Cambodia in the way he thinks it the best for Cambodia, that is to say, the worst. Pol Pot is mad, you know, like Hitler."

So, while Pol Pot was definitely not a Christian, he was also definitely not an Atheist.

---

I'll have to dig around for the China stuff tomorrow, Im about to head to bed so more arguing later. :-)

By the way, I didnt write up all that myself, I have copied it from this website which made it easier for me. I shouldnt take credit for it which would seem dishonest (not that it makes it any less true of course!). :-)
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Continue reading on Examiner.com Refuting The Myth That Hitler, Stalin And Pol Pot Were Atheists - National atheism | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/...re-atheists#ixzz1sL3kO8kb

Orkin, that is really quite incorrect. And Atheism is most definitely not "on par" with anything even remotely like the damage relgion has caused.

Lets deal with a few of your issues:

1. Abortion, well actually we have been over this argument quite a lot already. I dont agree with you in any parts of it and abortions are done by xtians as well as non-xtians (as well as all other religious people) so you most definitely can not ascribe abortions to be something damaging that Atheists have imposed on you. But we can always keep arguing this if you want.

2. Cambodia / Pol Pot.
He was truly a monster, having killed some twenty-five percent of the entire population of Cambodia. Pol Pot targeted not just different religions, but education, science and medicine in his quest for total domination. Now, let's take a head count of atheists who are against education, science and medicine. Thought so...
Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge were composed of Buddhists and Pol Pot was a Theravada Buddhist. He studied at a Buddhist monastery and then at a Catholic school for 8 years. Cambodia's communism was influenced by Theravada Buddhism.

Prince Norodom Sihanouk said, "Pol Pot does not believe in God but he thinks that heaven, destiny, wants him to guide Cambodia in the way he thinks it the best for Cambodia, that is to say, the worst. Pol Pot is mad, you know, like Hitler."

So, while Pol Pot was definitely not a Christian, he was also definitely not an Atheist.

--

Likewise religious people like to try and discredit Atheists by bringing up China, Nazi Germany and the old USSR. All of them equally faulty.

Adolph hitler was a Catholic and even had close relations with Pope Pius. Stalin was raised to be a Catholic priest. They were all awful people and did some awful things but you can not ascribe any of it to Atheism, doing is is totally incorrect.

---
Now lets compare some numbers shall we:

Add up the deaths that were attributed to Hitler, Stalin and Pot. Then round up for good measure. You can safely say that the number is staggering. Probably upwards of fifteen million.

Lets compare to:
•Albigensian Crusade, 1208-49
•Algeria, 1992-
•Baha'is, 1848-54
•Bosnia, 1992-95
•Boxer Rebellion, 1899-1901
•Christian Romans, 30-313 CE
•Croatia, 1991-92
•English Civil War, 1642-46
•Holocaust, 1938-45
•Huguenot Wars, 1562-1598
•India, 1992-2002
•India: Suttee & Thugs
•Indo-Pakistani Partition, 1947
•Iran, Islamic Republic, 1979-
•Iraq, Shiites, 1991-92
•Jews, 1348
•Jonestown, 1978
•Lebanon 1860 / 1975-92
•Molucca Is., 1999-
•Mongolia, 1937-39
•Northern Ireland, 1974-98
•Russian pogroms 1905-06 / 1917-22
•St. Bartholemew Massacre, 1572
•Shang China, ca. 1300-1050 BCE
•Shimabara Revolt, Japan 1637-38
•Sikh uprising, India, 1984-91
•Spanish Inquisition, 1478-1834
•Taiping Rebellion, 1850-64
•Thirty Years War, 1618-48
•Tudor England
•Vietnam, 1800s
•Witch Hunts, 1400-1800
•Xhosa, 1857
•Arab Outbreak, 7th Century CE
•Arab-Israeli Wars, 1948-
•Al Qaeda, 1993-
•Crusades, 1095-1291
•Dutch Revolt, 1566-1609
•Nigeria, 1990s, 2000s

If you add up all of the lives that were lost in the name of one religion or another, you come up with a staggering figure that is in excess of eight-hundred-million. That's eight-hundred-million. An eight, followed by eight zeros. So, even if the believers who are uneducated enough to think that Hitler, Stalin and Pot were psychotic mass murderers because they thought these men were atheists, it is horrifically clear that religious murder wins out.

I disagree completely Servant.

This part is total bullfluff...
"What we forget, is that a POSTIVE approach, healthy, "religion" is the best community organiizing force on the planet."

Just because a group is religious in nature doesnt mean it is good or good at organizing things. I can post you loads of examples of religious groups that are absolutely awful. The catholic church topping the list, it is absolutely huge, has loads of influence/power over people and they use it to cover up when priests commit atrocities to children. That is NOT the kind or organization I would ever work with no matter how organized they may be.

Simply put religious organizations are not automatically good, and I would even argue that they are bad as they tend to be very introvert and only care about their own specific brand of religion. Add another religious group to the mix and you often get a lot of tension.

Better to work with a community on equal grounds in a fully secular setting where religion is not taken into account and all are accepted equally.

Relgion is not needed and is most definitely not a force "for good".

Your sentiments are spot on Servant, however you dont need god or religion for any of the things you are tryign to achieve.

In fact I would say that it would even be easier to get to where you want to be without religion altogether.

Well DBD wont be back until this server is cleaned up one way or the other. There is no point playing here until then.

I dont think I will ever get better than a high Diamond, and then I think there are three leagues above me at least. Master, Grand Master and Pro.

I dont play enough to get really good at it I think. But its still a very good game and a fun way to pass time.

So what kind of rank do you guys have in SC2? Are you in Master leagues or better?

Im only at Diamond league at best at the moment. :)

The only really fun thing with that game was when the last probe came back and killed the SCVs, really serves that guy right for doign a boring SCV rush. :)

I really hate it when people do a worker-rush, its just so incredibly booooring! :)

Rogue8, I will equally fight for your right to belive in whatever religion you want, any day of the week I will support you in it and I will always argue for your right to believe and in free speech, thats hugely important! HOWEVER that doesnt mean I think your beliefs has any merit to them whatsoever, you still believe in magic no matter how you twist and turn things. :)

But just to clarify a bit, there are plenty dumb atheists and plenty dumb religious people just as there are plenty intelligent ones on each side.

Its just the IDEAS/BELIEFS of religion that I find incredibly dumb, and NOT necessarily the people. Most are indoctrinated with this filth from birth and I can understand its not something they want to break loose of or will ever agree is incorrect. It will never stop me from voicing my opinion on it though, no matter how upset you get from it. Thats my right as you say just as much its your right to believe in it.

One side of the argument tends to try and use intelligence and reason, the other side prefers magic. :)

Yes apologies, the picture I took seemed to be "in the first trimester" rather than at the "end of" as I said. So my bad on that. The rest of the argument still stands though just you had a better picture. :-)

Orkin, pleave have a look at this picture:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/medical/IM04046

That is the picture of a baby growing at the very end of the first trimester (remember that 88% of all abortions happen in this time period).

You have the start of a brain and only just barely a heart that is able to pump blood around. This is not even near to being a person of its own yet no matter how you twist and turn your arguments. Measuring something as "alive" just as soon as a brain has started developing is simply ridiculous.

OY! Keep your lunatics in your own country please! We definitely dont want them over here! :-)

Hmmm, I wonder if there is anywhere on the planet where they would be welcome? I was thinking about suggesting the North pole or something but theyd probably just start drilling for oil everywhere and build another huge army with the money...

Hey Eclisod :-)

No worries braden, Ill be around checking the posts on occasion when Im feeling bored. :)

If we all didnt have different opinions of things it would be really boring wouldnt it?

I'll bump this thread up a bit. As I used to quite like playing on the Team Server.

DBD played there for some 2.5 years, we were a friendly group with lots of players, we have all left the server since it is totally impossible to playin its current shape.

Fix it and we will come back, dont fix it and we will stay gone.

Oh and ORKIN:

Nearly all abortions take place in the first trimester (88% of them in fact!), when a fetus cannot exist independent of the mother. As it is attached by the placenta and umbilical cord, its health is dependent on her health, and cannot be regarded as a separate entity as it cannot exist outside her womb.

The concept of personhood is different from the concept of human life. Human life occurs at conception, but fertilized eggs used for in vitro fertilization (IVF) are also human lives and those not implanted are routinely thrown away. Is this murder, and if not, then how is abortion murder?

Again, your arguments doesnt float. Care to come up with some other ones?

If I were Obama's campaign manager Id probably pull the same tactic, about 50% of the population are women after all and if you can get them all voting for the Democrats then theyll likely win the election bigtime (of course I realize thats not very likely to happen but worth a shot). American politics is sure interesting to watch from afar, but it does scare me somewhat how backwards striving the republicans are, putting one of those loonies in charge of the biggest army in the world is not a good idea in my opinion.

Peronally Id say the republicans are very much anti-women but I see this as an outsider and a lot of things the republicans do in America are very much anti-lots-of-things and are generally considered to be total lunatics by most people over here in Europe. :-)
As a European and a Swede on top of that I would most likely be counted as both a communist and a very leftwing liberal if put in the US, in fact even the right wing in Sweden would probably count as leftwing liberals in the US...
All of that of course makes it good fun for arguments here!

Excuse me but what is INSIDE a womans body is actually HER body.
Same as whats in your body is yours.

Your argument doesnt float mate, come up with a better one?

Why is it a "crazy thing" to say that women should be allowed to decide things about their OWN body?

Please explain that to me, I am very interested to hear your reasoning.

Please note that with your reasoning you can say with exactly the same logic that you are not allowed as a man to ejaculate and you have no right to decide where you put your sperm or you potential ruin your sperms chances to live. But perhaps you are ok with some politician to decide when you can use your willy?
Or is it that your argument only goes one way?

Im sure the South Koreans would donate the computers to play SC2 on and then they can as you say duke it out in the game instead. :)

You referring to "wankers" now Atryn? ;-)

BobbyATA, you have a valid point in parts but by that same reasoning wanking off should be counted as mass-murder and somehow it isnt. By my moral reasoning it is the womans choice what she does with her own body, it is not my business nor anyone elses to tell her what to do, she can keep her pregnancy or not as she please. This seems far more reasonable to me, then if the woman is religious she can of course keep every conception all the way through to a baby if thats what she belives to be the case. BUT if you dont agree with that then that should be your choice. Its simple really and that seems the more moral standpoint to me.

If you have the idea that women should not be allowed to decide about their own body for some other reason than a strictly religious view then I would equally say that this should not be imposed on those that do not agree. If you have a valid argument though you are perfectly allowed to raise your concern, you are allowed to have your own view but forcing it upon another person that do not agree should not be allowed without a valid reason.

Most the time these strange ideas do come from religion and specifically the abortion and womens rights is just a good example of what I was trying to highlight. As you say there are others such as the Marriage act that is currently debated as well where religious right do not want gay people the right to marry same as everyone else. Again when you ask why this is the case the end argument seem to keep coming back to the bible and other such nonsense.

Morality most certainly does not come from a 2000 year old book. And as you say living in a country with millions of people from all sorts of religious beliefs and cultures just means that we have to be MORE SECULAR so that noone elses culture or belief comes and tramples on you as well. I want to protect your right to be a christian just as much as I want to protect my own right as an atheist or my friend that is a muslim.

Indeed thanks Atryn, I am in full agreement with you on that one.

If your religious belief brings you to think that life starts at contraception (what about the sperm? Is it mass-murder everytime you wank off or does it only apply to women?) then that is your belief and if you have a wife that thinks the same as you then please feel free to keep every child you ever conceive. However you can NOT force this belief onto anyone else.

That goes for any religiously based belief, they simply do not belong in the public life and should under no circumstances be forced upon others.

Women fought long and hard for their rights in the Suffrage and Im pretty damn sure they dont want to loose their rights any more than we want to start forcing black people to sit at the back of the bus or have job applications with "Irish need not apply" and similar things like that.

As I mentioned before, a SECULAR society will ensure that everyone are treated equally, religious and non-religious both. Its the only way we can all live together fairly. That way you can keep your beliefs as much as you want and I can still live my life just fine without any supersticious nonsense interferring with it.

This one might explain it a bit clearer to you if you dont find it:
http://www.secularism.org.uk/what-is-secularism.html

Mmm yes, not good, we have just evecuated our office in Sri Lanka.

Hopefully it will be ok though but we will see soon.

Well that must be the stupidest thing youve said yet braden, civil rights, freedom of speech and equal rights for women and anyone else is absolutely what a secularist is all about and I support all those things. They actually make sense compared to religion which does not make sense in any form whatsoever.

Religious people however tend to be against many of the things you just listed and it is one of the main reasons I am so against religion in the first place. In America at the moment for instance they seem very keen on totally trampling womens rights back to the stone ages again which is entirely the religious rights doing.

And yes, if you have a stupid and ridiculous standpoint that you believe in a magic man in the sky then I will ridicule it. Because simply put your position is totally ridiculous and just because its to do with "religion" im supposed to keep my mouth shut and just accept the crap youre trying to feed me. Not happening mate. :-)

If youre curious here is the organization that I belong to feel free to have a read, it is very straightforward and the main focus is to let people believe in whatever religion they want but to keep their beliefs out of public life in any shape whatsoever.

http://www.secularism.org.uk/

Well at least Poseidon and Ra are a bit cool compared to the almighty sky-daddy that seems preferential at the moment. :-)

Other than that I like Atryn's point above. That is kind of what I was trying to get to as well.

No of course scientific theories can be improved on or even disproved and bettered in many countless ways. But a proven scentific theory I would say is valid to teach to children in school, you of course have to explain science and how scentific theories work and how they constantly improve and are changing depending on the latest discoveries. But as long as that is all done (which I definitely hope is done) then I see nothing wrong with teaching abiogenesis or any other scentific theories out there. We should always teach the latest out there as far as possible and try to get our children to be curious about what elst they may yet have to discover. Who knows it could be your children that end up curing cancer or discovering what must have happened prior to the "big bang".

That sure as hell beats the snot out of reading one book and thikning that that is the absolute truth and nothine else will ever happen and everything that is is just because "god-did-it".

As I said just because you dont like the current best theory out there you should NOT automatically then claim that "god did it".

I have no problem with you rejecting scentific theories, or even totally disagreeing with them. But it most certainly does not prove that some magic man did it instead. From the little I read just over the last half hour it doesnt seem that abiogenesis is quite as badly proven as you make it out to be but as I mentioned my knowledge on this specific subject is currently limited. :-)

Instead what I would suggest you could do is pick up a degree at university and then start working on proving it yourself. Or if you prefer start producing some valid proof that the standpoint of "God-did-it" is valid. I would LOVE to see some real scientific evidence for that one. And I promise you if you can get some of that proven, and peer reviewed by the sceintific community then I will read it and re-evaluate my own beliefs based on the findings.

But you are mistaken how Scientific theory works, it simply states what the best possible explanation is that we have currently. Some scentific theories are very very well proven such as Evolution.

Whereas some are less so, perhaps abiogenesis is one such, I honestly dont know enough about it to be able to judge it at the moment. However from a brief google around it doesnt sound too shabby on proof of the theory there either.

However the beuty with Science is that you keep working at it, if someone comes up with a new theory tomorrow that completely wrecks the current theory of abiogenesis then so be it, the science books will be re-written, we will need to teach our children the current best theory we have based on the proof that are there.

This way we keep teaching our children the best of what we know all the time. This way we actually advance our own civilization and our own lives.

It by far surpasses the very stale and backwards striving religions which really tries to stop progress and stop us moving forward. I can see absolutely zero merit to religion in comparison to science.

Orkin: I think your main problem is this "...building blocks of life magically assembled themselves...".

You make it sound like it is a magic trick (which incidentally is what religion does and NOT science). Evolution works over a very very long time period (and yes, the earth is faaaar older than some 6000ish years!) little by little and in the end you get a human or a plant or whatever else.

Just that you have found yourself unable to accept abiogenesis (which is the first step to overcome before the more obvious parts of evolving life steps in) is just a bit weird. There are experiments made and advances happening even with abiogenesis, its as any other science something that takes a while to fully prove and to flesh out the theory. But at least the scientific theory is there and proof and experiments are being made. I am sure you can find plenty on google if you hvae a look. And as this is science you can be sure that people will keep working on it to try and prove it better and eventually they might even be able to show you exactly how it happened.

Just because everything isnt explained and proven in detail you cant MAGICALLY ASSUME that then "god-did-it".

TheORKINMan that is just ridiculous in itself, Evolution has loads and loads of evidence for it. It just tends to be that religious people chose not to read it or just discount it because they have an aversion to proof.
Perhaps take a few biology lessons or read up a bit hmm?

braden: It is only an intolerance to stupid ideas (ie. religion) not an intolerance to people. I fully respect everyones right to believe and think whatever they want, and I would even fight tooth and nail for your right to believe whatever you want (be that god or unicorns or whatever!).

All I want is to keep religion completely away from public life. So rather than label me an Atheist (which in itself isnt wrong) I would prefer to call myself a "Secularist" as that is where I think the most important fight will be.

But just so that you know I think that if you believe in something completely ridiculous you should be ready for people like me to come around and ridicule it. So if you believe in "God" I WILL equal it to believing in the "Tooth Fairy" and other things that can not be proven / does not exist.

BUT I fully respect your right to disagree with me. Thats what makes these arguments so much fun. :-)

Nah Braden, its not "hatred", its more like "contempt". And dont worry I have an equal amount of it for most religions (although some are actually a bit nicer than others).

Its just that Christianity and Islam are the two religions that are around here the most and thus where the more interesting discussions are. If people started up a thread about Hinduism on this board Im sure I can go there and post some fun stuff too, at least some of their gods are a bit cool looking. Sure beats good ole' Zombie-Jesus. :-)

Garry as an Atheist I would agree with you there, I definitely dont think any atheist should try and lead people to god, it sounds weird to do that while not believing in it themselves.

I would much prefer it if he left the church and then tried to lead people AWAY from god.

And get a Christian to read 'the god delusion' as well and hopefully that will help a few of them to get rid of their delusions... :-)

Glad to hear that the Methodist priest has seen some sense and got himself away from his midieval way of thinking and joined the sensible people that doesnt think there is a magic man in the sky that pulls all our strings.

Seriously I hope and think that more people will manage to slip the noose of religion!

Anywho, looks like SoF is being all nice about it so no hard feelings. :)

Cant blame you for having one guy that thinks its fun to cause some havoc.

Ah well I wasnt going to blame you anyway Boltar, different server different game. But it certainly totally ruined my reset however you put it. It will shoot me down some 10M NW by the end, the hit was at the absolute worst possible time.

:-(

Global warming is a hoax! My fridge/freezer is still cold!

So you are doing the thing where you say you are not going to kill everyone to get them playing and then just go and kill everyone after anyway?

You going to kill everyone again are you?