Verified:

tellarion Game profile

Member
3906

Aug 15th 2013, 7:00:33

Originally posted by Obvious:
The Sol+Evo+Monsters vs SoF war I think is too small scale to give an accurate picture of how these changes effect war.

So far though there hasn't been any undying lone warrior able to absorb infinite hits while an alliance grinds itself into oblivion attempting to kill. It will be interesting to see how the changes scale.

However, on the military damage change. I am waiting to see the first suicider that along with the suicide damage now eats up an alliances jets. This causing the alliance to no longer be able to retal leading them to being farmed.



There have been quite a few 600-700 hit kills with no walling involved :P

Sov Game profile

Member
2462

Aug 15th 2013, 13:54:07

As I have outlined to qz in our lengthy discussion on IRC, attacking is currently broken in a big way.

BR takes almost half the amount of hits to kill than GS and as a result GS is now redundant as is the need to carry a large amount of troops. I do not think the consequence of this latest change is part of the intention.

I believe this needs to be hotfixed to be balanced asap.

Obvious Game profile

Member
117

Aug 15th 2013, 13:57:46

Originally posted by tellarion:

There have been quite a few 600-700 hit kills with no walling involved :P


I think that's the intent though, I haven't seen one but I would assume then that fast kill + high pop.

Originally posted by Sov:
As I have outlined to qz in our lengthy discussion on IRC, attacking is currently broken in a big way.

BR takes almost half the amount of hits to kill than GS and as a result GS is now redundant as is the need to carry a large amount of troops. I do not think the consequence of this latest change is part of the intention.

I believe this needs to be hotfixed to be balanced asap.


Haven't seen a GS either! I guess I know why ;p

That certainly sounds broken. If intentional that is crazy, BR was already better, why not just remove troops then.

qzjul Game profile

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Aug 15th 2013, 15:27:11

Originally posted by Sov:
As I have outlined to qz in our lengthy discussion on IRC, attacking is currently broken in a big way.

BR takes almost half the amount of hits to kill than GS and as a result GS is now redundant as is the need to carry a large amount of troops. I do not think the consequence of this latest change is part of the intention.

I believe this needs to be hotfixed to be balanced asap.


Yea, we're looking at this, want to test it in alpha a bit first
Finally did the signature thing.

Duna Game profile

Member
787

Aug 16th 2013, 7:20:33

wasnt is kinda obvious, since 2 GS at minimum = 1 BR at minimum and most of hits in fast runs is at minimum?

qzjul Game profile

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Aug 16th 2013, 16:11:24

There has always been a difference between GS & BR; but double wasn't our intent; this might be partially due to it being early in the set, but still
Finally did the signature thing.

Sov Game profile

Member
2462

Aug 17th 2013, 0:25:12

If you hotfix it, as long as you give 48 hours notice of the hotfix prior to making the actual hotfix then I think there should be no issue with that. The 48 hours will give players and Alliances ample opportunity to prepare for the change being made.

It is very broken and needs to be balanced to make war less 1 dimensional.

prank

Member
165

Aug 17th 2013, 14:58:56

At this point it would not be fair to change in middle of the war. There are obviously certain alliances who have already gone turret/jet heavy due to the analysis of the newly implemented system. Just wait for next set imo

Sov Game profile

Member
2462

Aug 17th 2013, 15:02:43

I think the number on both sides of the war who went turret/jet heavy is pretty even. But the implications for this change are much bigger than just the war.

Pang Game profile

Administrator
Game Development
5731

Aug 17th 2013, 15:19:54

the whole war mechanic is sort of flawed to begin with in this day and age. a summation of strength + binary break/no-break mechanic which then triggers different pop-kill returns depending on attack type will keep war a numbers and spamming game rather than anything overly strategic. especially as the ability to optimize when we make changes takes aout 45 minutes :p

if we're leaving it til next round, we may as well work on a brand new mechanic.
-=Pang=-
Earth Empires Staff
pangaea [at] earthempires [dot] com

Boxcar - Earth Empires Clan & Alliance Hosting
http://www.boxcarhosting.com

Duna Game profile

Member
787

Aug 17th 2013, 15:39:52

leave the fluffing mechanic alone and start working on getting more ppl in game.

Atryn Game profile

Member
2149

Aug 17th 2013, 18:18:17

Originally posted by Pang:
the whole war mechanic is sort of flawed to begin with in this day and age. a summation of strength + binary break/no-break mechanic which then triggers different pop-kill returns depending on attack type will keep war a numbers and spamming game rather than anything overly strategic. especially as the ability to optimize when we make changes takes aout 45 minutes :p

if we're leaving it til next round, we may as well work on a brand new mechanic.


Huzzah Pang!!! I always thought the binary system was weird.

"You sent 2 million jets into the country! They were all shot down by turrets and not a single building was destroyed or a single person killed!"

"You sent 2,000,001 jets into the country! You broke through and destroyed 500 buildings and killed 20,000 people!"

Its really weird.

qzjul Game profile

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Aug 17th 2013, 22:28:16

Well it isn't a 1-jet difference, it's at least a distribution =/
Finally did the signature thing.

Pang Game profile

Administrator
Game Development
5731

Aug 17th 2013, 22:31:08

true, we've done some things to update the mechanic

and @ duna -> game improvements are required to attract and, more importantly, retain players. :)
-=Pang=-
Earth Empires Staff
pangaea [at] earthempires [dot] com

Boxcar - Earth Empires Clan & Alliance Hosting
http://www.boxcarhosting.com

Atryn Game profile

Member
2149

Aug 18th 2013, 0:39:27

Originally posted by qzjul:
Well it isn't a 1-jet difference, it's at least a distribution =/


I just meant the difference between "break" and "defense held"... I'm sure you get the idea. ;)

Duna Game profile

Member
787

Aug 18th 2013, 5:45:09

Originally posted by Pang:
and @ duna -> game improvements are required to attract and, more importantly, retain players. :)


How much new players you got from all this mechanic changes?

You are confusing cause and effect. First you need to get new players and only then you need to retain them.

enshula Game profile

Member
EE Patron
2510

Aug 23rd 2013, 19:53:26

Originally posted by qzjul:
Originally posted by iScode:

military damage?? you loose more the bigger you are? that makes no sense, if you are bigger you should probably mean you would loose less attacking a smaller country, If you are smaller you should loose more.


Perhaps, but the way wars are now is much less balanced than in mid-E2025, partially due to the way the larger alliance by TNW tends to pull away exponentially after about a week at war; you can see this time and again in the war graphs; this change is, in effect, an attempt to put a handbreak on that tendency, to keep the war competitive a little bit longer, keeping wars more interesting longer, and keeping it more competitive longer


The main reason wars are different is hitting 140%+ nw used to be max popkilled% with the 10-30% bracket being very small.

Think having the big countries break then save turns because they killed next to no pop with the restarts finishing kills.

Thats why wars tended to flatten out when the losers were about 1/3 the networth of the winners. Because turns to kill got way longer for the winners.

Making the turns to kill even (as now) yet increasing losses from the winners will only have an effect if the winners economy is insufficient to sustain a slight increase in costs. The only real effect from that id expect is to make walling with low nw more effective for stats whores.

elvesrus

Member
5053

Aug 23rd 2013, 20:46:18

enshula, was that the set shortly after the move to EC where you could easily kill countries with only 2 people? if so I don't think those changes lasted more than a set or 2.
Originally posted by crest23:
Elves is a douche on every server.

enshula Game profile

Member
EE Patron
2510

Aug 26th 2013, 7:05:48

No, the game was like that for years.

The special attack return brackets were the same as landgrabbing so you might recall it as when topfeeds got way more land than a retal got back.

masterfu Game profile

Member
81

Oct 28th 2013, 20:11:49

great