So, I've been finding of late that the vast majority of my deletions are a result of safe-list issues. I don't particularly like having to delete countries, and so decided I'd write a post reminding everyone about safe-list rules in the hopes of preventing a number of deletions.

Being safe listed is our way of trying to let multiple players who live with one another continue to enjoy this game. However, when players are playing from the same internet connection or computer, it becomes extremely difficult for us to verify that they are not, indeed, a single player.

In order to cope with this, we've implemented a number of rules exclusive to safe-listed countries interactions with each other. These rules are as follows:

1. No FA. If you send FA to one another -- you will get deleted.
2. No pacts. If you have pacts with one another -- you will get deleted.
3. No market aid. If you sell goods to one another through the market outside of normal prices, or sell an excessive number of goods through the market to one another -- you will get deleted.
4. No joint attacks. If you jointly attack (landgrab or otherwise) a country -- you will get deleted.*
5. No assisted spy ops. If you attack a country based upon an op made by the other player in your household -- you will get deleted.*
6. No attacking one another. if you launch attacks against one another -- you will get deleted.**
7. No ops against one another. If you launch spy ops against one another -- you will get deleted.

*If you're playing in the same alliance (or alliances on the same side) in a KR in which several other players are participating, I will attempt to take circumstances into account. However, I reserve the right to enforce these rules strictly at my sole discretion.
**If you're playing in opposing alliances during a war, and the attacks are part of kill runs in which multiple other players are participating, I will attempt to take circumstances into account. However, I reserve the right to enforce these rules strictly at my sole discretion.

Please note that this list is not exhaustive. If I see any evidence of safe listed players cooperating with one another, or evidence that safe listed players are actually a single player, I will take action. The safe list is not a writ to do as you please, or to be free of scrutiny. Those on the safe list will actually bear additional scrutiny.

This is to ensure that the game is fair for all players.

If anyone currently on the safe list is in violation of any of the above rules, please note that I giving you 24 hours to come into full compliance with them. At that time, I will be making deletions. I would encourage alliance leaders to repost this message on their web sites in order to reach as many players as possible.

-Fooglmog
Guy with no clue.

My only question is about the market issues.

What if I am selling bushels at the current market price as a farmer and my brother running a lot of techers happens to buy like a block of 500 million of them. Would that result in a deletion? I don't really see any way to control or forsee that.

HERE IS A BETTER ONE.

lets say we are both playing FFA. And 1 of us are doing a market buy out using oil. Lets say player 1 has a stock of oil at 2000(80m). player 2 the buy out guy puts his up for 9000 each. on the way up to his oil he needs to buy out player 1 oil at 2000 to get to his oil at 9000. Does this mean he need to stop even tho he doesnt know player 1 has 80m at 2000?

Angry, that's unlikely to be an issue. If it's at the market price, you won't run into problems unless you're sampling the market (buying a smaller lot first, to determine if it's the other player's bushels). That's something I can watch for.

Hellrush, that's a situation where it comes down to my discretion. I'll look at things like how often this happens between these players, whether the buy-out kept going after that oil was bought, and whether that player had been keeping those barrels on the market for an extended period of time. There's some other details I can look at as well. However, yes, getting deleted in that circumstance is a risk you run.

-Fooglmog
Guy with no clue.

Foo, that sounds fair. Just one more question. Would clearing of 36 bushels be an issue?

going by his previous post I could see that being an issue if the offending bushels aren't at the end and the clearing stops

gotta get me on the safe list..

how many roomates can i safelist at one time?

What are K4Fs country numbers? is he netting? if so i want to grab him once to get him deleted. MUAHAHAHAHA

Was this thread made because of the two sets deleted in LaE?

Nope.

-Fooglmog
Guy with no clue.

I have changed ISPs, and now have a new IP.
Do I need to re safe list?

Nope.

-Fooglmog
Guy with no clue.

1. No FA. If you send FA to one another -- you will get deleted.
2. No pacts. If you have pacts with one another -- you will get deleted.
3. No market aid. If you sell goods to one another through the market outside of normal prices, or sell an excessive number of goods through the market to one another -- you will get deleted.
4. No joint attacks. If you jointly attack (landgrab or otherwise) a country -- you will get deleted.*
5. No assisted spy ops. If you attack a country based upon an op made by the other player in your household -- you will get deleted.*
6. No attacking one another. if you launch attacks against one another -- you will get deleted.**
7. No ops against one another. If you launch spy ops against one another -- you will get deleted.
8. If you get deleted for any of the reasons stated above, you may be a redneck!

Will post these to our members' boardc.
Thank, Foog..

Question: Does this apply only to FFA? From my discussions with game mods, they have told me that in 1a.. #4 does not apply and that two people safelisted could AB someone simultaneously without anyone else taking part in the AB.

Can you confirm that this is only for ffa?

4 kinda ruins killruns and at least doesn't apply to alliance so shouldn't apply to ffa either.

@sigma: I understand these to be the rules that are in force on all the servers. However, there is room for interpretation in how they're applied, so you may find different mods will apply them in slightly different ways.

@Marshal: If you take a look at my notes at the bottom, you'll see that I don't plan to make deletions because people are in the same KR. Stop worrying so much.

To alleviate some of the questions and concerns about this though, let me take a couple minutes to explain exactly what the premise behind these rules is.

As mods, we know that there's a possibility that a single player could fool us into thinking he's actually 2 players, and get 2 accounts onto the safe list. If this were to happen, we want the advantage that player would gain from having multiple accounts to be minimized. If you look at these rules, I think you'll see how each of them is designed to do this, while interfering as little as possible with legitimate play.

Rule 4, specifically, exists primarily to prevent suiciding and farming. Both of those practices are permitted within the rules, but are also damaging and frustrating to other players. Therefore, I don't want to see a player who decides to do these things able to do additional harm because they fooled us and got onto the safe list.

However, because farming and suiciding are difficult to define, I've written this rule in such a way that I have broad discretion to make decisions on a case-by-case basis. In other words, I intend to be reasonable in the application of this rule, and hope that by being transparent in it's goal, you'll all be able to navigate it successfully.

If you're uncomfortable with this, I'd like to point out that you have another mod, martian, and the admins to appeal to if you believe I'm being unfair in its application.

Hold on if you mean to complain though. I have yet to make a deletion under this rule, and until I do it seems unlikely that you'll be able to make the case that it's either unduly onerous or being enforced in an unfair manner.

-Fooglmog
Guy with no clue.

5. i'm bit curious how to determine that but doubt it gets explained.

@foolmog: That's a fine explaination... but as has been told to me by martian, the #4 rule was more specifically for ffa..and it does not really apply to 1a.