Stop crying #120 - Earth Empires Forum

Deerhunter

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2113

Jan 22nd 2012, 21:55:07

Whenever you Retal a retal you are fair game for any destruction brought. You retaled my fair and legit retal on you. Now you will nto make top 10. Also, when you hit me you did it when i was fighting a war against JJ. Not cool either and i made it clear who i was. So, i formally declare war on you. You will beat me at this point but your finish is over.

Ya, tho i walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I shall fear no retals,
Cause i have the biggest, baddest, and toughest country in the valley!

KoHeartsGPA

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Jan 22nd 2012, 21:56:39

Who's #120? LOL

Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Deerhunter

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Jan 22nd 2012, 22:01:16

I dont know but i am destroying 280 buildings with every turn i get via spy ops. and in return he is failing bio terr on me and failing DHes. He is not smart to ROR.

Ya, tho i walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I shall fear no retals,
Cause i have the biggest, baddest, and toughest country in the valley!

KoHeartsGPA

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Jan 22nd 2012, 22:03:43

Give em hell, RoR is NOT kool!

braden

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Jan 22nd 2012, 22:05:05

only if you send a retal message, though!

Deerhunter

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Jan 22nd 2012, 22:10:22

I told him it was a retal. I did kid him but telling him i was going to take a second retal due to his poor hitting of a DH. I was kidding and i even told his deff alli about it. Instead this dude RORed me. Now he pays.

Ya, tho i walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I shall fear no retals,
Cause i have the biggest, baddest, and toughest country in the valley!

braden

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Jan 22nd 2012, 22:17:41

all i ever ask is that i'm told it's a retal.

blid

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Jan 22nd 2012, 22:18:36

Dude, "retal etiquette" is insanely illogical in this game and I'm pretty sick of it. So a guy bounces on Deerhunter - therefore, no land lost - and yet Deerhunter is apparently "entitled" to a retal.

Deerhunter goes all jets basically and, with 2 hours left in the set, retals and takes about 1000 (1500). Note that Deerhunter has 6m networth and is in 60th place, that guy had 14m networth and over 20k land and is currently in 14th place.

And that guy, who never took any land from Deerhunter because he bounced, is apparently crossing the line to hit back? Well, he hits back and takes a measley 500 (900) for his retal, and to Deerhunter, being +1000 acres and hurting a guy who actually was a top ten contender isn't good enough. Now it's time for the ABs because he broke this "rule" of ROR.

I am 100% on this guy's side.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

blid

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Jan 22nd 2012, 22:22:22

Going all jets to fluff up a guy's set with 2 hours left in the game because he bounced an attack on you earlier and then being shocked at the breach of etiquette when the guy gets mad is loony imo. And yet it's not Deerhunter specifically who thinks this way, it seems to be the whole Earth Empires hivemind. It makes no sense. Doesn't anyone notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

Deerhunter

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Jan 22nd 2012, 22:32:21

You forget that when the guy hit me earlier i was in the middle of a war with JJ. This guy hit me while everyone knew i was in a war. That is why i made every effort to retal him. The one grab was all i was going to make- i even let his deff alli i was talking to know that. So ya, he broke the rules and now is paying. He broke TWO rules. First, he hit a guy in a clear solo war. Second he ROR. Either way you look at it i am not wrong to fight back.

Ya, tho i walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I shall fear no retals,
Cause i have the biggest, baddest, and toughest country in the valley!

herbs12

Member
694

Jan 22nd 2012, 22:32:55

I agree with blid 100%. I dislike the retal system in place how ppl approach it and get away with or not. Dh should have just let it go especially since he was in warring state all game and had zero chance of a decent finish. I know nothing will change but a 24 hr retal window in express would be nice and I believe pretty fair.

KoHeartsGPA

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Jan 22nd 2012, 22:33:15

Confirmed, blid took crazy pills :p

blid

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Jan 22nd 2012, 22:57:49

BTW Deerhunter, if you're Polar Express then you have a history of jetting and topfeeding. How do you square that with your call out thread you made here saying not to attack top 20 players

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

blid

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Jan 22nd 2012, 22:59:20

Another example of retaling gone wrong:
oldman hits Rock Lobster for 200 acres 1/19 15:00. Rock Lobster waits until 1/22 18:00 to retal. He gets 1600 (2700). That's just not right, even ignoring the fact that Rock Lobster is apparently a fluff because 2 hours later he hit oldman again for 1500 (2500).

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

crest23

Member
4666

Jan 22nd 2012, 22:59:55

While we are on this topic, can soomeone explain to me if I was in the wrong with JJ?

Not knowing the country was his, I hit #78 on a no spy 100 jet PS and failed, I know, I suck. He lost less than 10 defense (8, turrets I think).

He 'retals' me 8 hrs later for over 600A and I let it go. Looking at his style of play and the country make up, I realized it was JJ and figured he knew it was me he retalled. I there RoRed him for 1700A.

I generally try not to hit the people I know and kind of expect the same, I might be wrong.

Question is, was I in the wrong?

The Nigerian Nightmare.

Xinhuan

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Jan 22nd 2012, 23:11:50

This is a game, technically as long as you didn't break any game rules, there is no wrong.

If you're asking in the context of whether it is morally wrong, then I'll say RoRing is bad etiquette and wrong.

But again, what is considered good/bad etiquette is set by the community as a whole, it can change over time, and sometimes, it just doesn't make sense, and not everyone has to agree with it.

blid

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Jan 22nd 2012, 23:28:39

I say good job, you don't need to give away 600 acres because you sent 100 jets at someone. People just use hits like that as an excuse to take your land later. This "no RoR" stuff has turned laying low and intentionally getting hit into a winning strategy. See the big Rep for evidence, he just won the set...

Edited By: blid on Jan 23rd 2012, 0:00:29
See Original Post

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

Xinhuan

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Jan 23rd 2012, 0:11:06

The lay low and retal later wouldn't be even an issue if you weren't allowed to store 360(360) to begin with.

180(180) would probably be fine and forces people to play every 12 hours. Instead we get people whoring 720 turns to be able to use their last 1080 turns (of a 1800 turn reset) at double the usual turn rate.

Getafix

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Jan 23rd 2012, 0:11:35

I was Rock Lobster, and I hit oldman as a retal for 3000 acres. He had hit me and 79 others. Then I made a legal landgrab on him in the last few hours because GDI let me, since he had hit me at least once. Oldman could have retal'd my landgrab, it was his choice not to, since then we might have had a war and he was sitting with no tanks or troops. I'm using the same rules of GDI that let oldman win (almost) by preying on all the little countries. I came 8th and made 2 hits the entire set.

braden

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11,480

Jan 23rd 2012, 0:16:23

i hold turns to buy cheap tech later in the game, and this is apparently unfair?

if you don't want to landgrab me for two hundred acres and then get retalled for a thousand, don't landgrab me for two hundred acres. i can promise you right now i won't be landgrabbing you for a thousand acres, that's for sure..

TNTroXxor

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Jan 23rd 2012, 0:25:18

Originally posted by Getafix:

I have to say i kinda agree with what you said, but if you take a closer look at your own news you had an easy all jetter and some noobs that grabbed u before for you to farm on. Taking 2 hits makes it looked out of spite.

Its great to gain 3kA with 4 turns but people spent a good part of their weekend trying to win, not just 4 turns like you have. Oldman would have won hands down if werent for your 2 grabs.

Its not illegal or even morally obligated but really you have to be in the shoe of those who played every other hour and get hit like how you hitted to feel it

Originally posted by JJ23:

i havent been deleted since last set

Xinhuan

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Jan 23rd 2012, 0:30:18

I didn't say its unfair.

I merely said it wouldn't be an issue if the game didn't allow for players to store 720 turns to be able to use 1080 turns at double the usual rate. That's more than half a reset's worth of turns mind you.

It's certainly a good tactic, particularly for a casher, because stuff are so cheap at the end. This wouldn't be as good a tactic for non-cashers, since you want to sell your military/tech/oil/food at a price when they are typically much higher at the start/middle of the reset.

From my perspective, this is borderline game unbalancing, and the main reason why cashers are strong on Express.

Getafix

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Jan 23rd 2012, 0:34:06

I spent the whole set buying and selling on the market as a demo farmer to get my net worth. The other noobs who put me in DR early on were suicider types, like cheeseland, and plenty of other people had hit them. And I was not a jetter, I had no jets at all for most of the set until the end where I was buying and selling them. Jets are a lot cheaper to hold without paying for the extra expense of turrets.

And why shouldn't I hit a bottomfeeder for everything I can get?

braden

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Jan 23rd 2012, 0:38:02

the fact commies produce military early game is unbalancing as other strats don't, so they can benefit from early grabbing and quicker growth. this is also, by the way, a good tactic, particularly for indys.

you choose one way or the other, depending on your strategy. retals are a part of this game. they are part of this game because any single country can be broken, and i'd guess almost every one of those people want the accepted policy of 1:1 retals.

if hit on the nineteenth and retalled on the twenty second is an issue, then make smarter landgrabs. You don't want to be retalled heavy, I don't want to be bottomfed while I'm asleep or watching two seasons of Boardwalk Empire.

braden

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Jan 23rd 2012, 0:42:04

tduong (i believe it was, my short term memory is a joke) made his point very well. I played my hundreds of turns, got an op, he saw my failed one, and explained to me that a retal at this point of the game would be dealt with as war.

I then had the choice to retal and face war or lose my two hundred acres and move along. I only bought the jets in the first place to retal a six hour old grab. Had that grab not happened i wouldn't have had six million jets and any retal against him wouldn't have crossed my mind.

Xinhuan

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Jan 23rd 2012, 0:42:45

Braden: Yes, you are correct, but I've also mentioned that commies are unbalanced because of the 60% sale capability:

http://forums.earthempires.com/...p;p=1326809455&page=4

See 4th post from top. Pang has seen it and agreed with me. Heck, did you even notice there are 58 commies this reset out of 160 or so countries (that are out of protection)?

I do, however, understand that the 60% sale change was made because if it remained at 35%, commies would have to sell every 50 turns they play instead of every 100 turns, and that is also incredibly annoying, and frankly, I don't see a solution to this yet.

herbs12

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694

Jan 23rd 2012, 0:47:27

No old man wouldn have won easily my theo cashier before I self deleted was a top contender. I do want to, was my country and even dispite forgetting to join gdi and numerous spy ops done I was quite far ahead of most all ppl on the server. Anyhow back on topic fluffty retal system. And crest I think your dh was funny on jj mainly because I doubled his d and you were about 40 jets short. Can't comment if it's right or wrong because of my point with dh. It's more or less a flaud system and all that matters is what you can get away with.

braden

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Jan 23rd 2012, 0:47:56

so then cashers or farmers waiting later in game with the turns stored doesn't unbalance the game, it balances the weaker early game against the stronger early game to the two sides being equal(ish) mid and late game, with the benefit of player built retal policy to those who got bullied while small.

if i can't retal late game for big agres, you can't landgrab early game for small acres. fair is fair.

tduong

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Jan 23rd 2012, 0:48:28

i agree with blid 100%. However there is no right or wrong.

People are just taking advantage of a weakness in the game mechanics. It's cheap and pretty much bait and hook scamming.

I try to be fair to people and not wait til the end of set to hit them back for profit. If I can't retal within ~100 turns in express then I'd probably won't retal.

Originally posted by blid:

I haven't had a wrong opinion in years

braden

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Jan 23rd 2012, 0:51:02

"It's cheap and pretty much bait and hook scamming."

but it isn't. my holding of turns isn't at all a desire to buy jets later and take your land. i want to all explore the entire reset, YOU take my land and then when I'm playing my country i'm not allowed to take yours?

wait until you'll get equal gains off your grab, or once you hit me drop all of your defense and land i'll happily retal you for the same two hundred acres you took from me.

tduong

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Jan 23rd 2012, 0:51:53

I think after 150 turns of being hit. People should not be allowed retal. This stop most of the stored 360 turns cheap all jetter hits. This will also stop people from packing 720 turns too and stabilize the game plus market.

Originally posted by blid:

I haven't had a wrong opinion in years

Getafix

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Jan 23rd 2012, 0:56:23

"I think after 150 turns of being hit. People should not be allowed retal." Thats silly tdoung. You might as well say after zero turns, people should not be allowed to hit.

braden

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Jan 23rd 2012, 0:56:37

"I think after 150 turns of being hit. People should not be allowed retal. This stop most of the stored 360 turns cheap all jetter hits. This will also stop people from packing 720 turns too and stabilize the game plus market."

then if less than 800/1000 turns are played by either country, you get 3% gains from a landgrab instead of the (what is it now?) 8%.

i call that fair, and then we get 360(100) because I like playing friday night, less so thursday.

ridiculous you say, it'll ruin landgrabbing? or just early game bottomfeeding like you want to ruin late game retals?

(and the set ended, but I am seriously considering the ttr-mbr we were talking about, tudoung. i created the same country name, john birch, so send me a res pact and if i do go techer i'll accept otherwise i'll go casher and let you find a techer to ally with)

braden

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Jan 23rd 2012, 0:58:21

ok, eight hundred is a little low.. lets call it four hundred by either country..

oldman

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Jan 23rd 2012, 2:49:10

Originally posted by herbs12:

I think I would have won easily herbs lol. I was on course for 33M before those hits.

Getafix: I accepted your first retal even though it came 72 hours late and I had to make a decision to whether retal your 2nd hit. I would have and could have ruined you with 360 turns on hands upon your second hit even though I had 0 tanks and troops but then I thought it would be better if I continue to play on since I still had a good shot at winning. A pity I lost by 20k nw. But all is well, I was just pissed that you ruined a rare 30M finish just because you disliked bottom-feeding.

cheers,
oldman

blid

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Jan 23rd 2012, 2:54:14

Originally posted by Xinhuan:

Yeah! I have suggested this before. I suggested 270 (180), so you still can be away for over 24 hours, only having to store a few turns. I think that or 180 (180) should be done, afterall it's Express - you shouldn't be taking 2 days off in a row.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

justtaint

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664

Jan 23rd 2012, 3:06:13

I never understood why someone needs to send a retal message in Express. Who here doesn't know when its a retal? If both countries are in GDI, its pretty obvious you want to avoid a double tap on someone that has proven the ability to break.

SlashMD

blid

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Jan 23rd 2012, 3:12:31

Originally posted by Getafix:

This logic is... a little eyebrow raising. Waiting 72 hours on a retal and profiting 2500+ on land, I think already falls into cheap-shot territory. But fine, I know many people consider ALL retals fair game (though some don't, Rob for instance says 24 hours).

But to then go back for more, against the same guy, even if I go along with your logic that this is its own landgrab, I don't know. I say spread the hits around a little more. If you push a guy that hard like you pushed oldman, you're very lucky not to end up with a wasteland country. And I have to say, I wouldn't blame the guy one bit for it.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

KoHeartsGPA

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Jan 23rd 2012, 3:14:05

Slash, unfortunately there's a ton of idiots in Xpress :/ that's why its better to message after retaling :/ but I do agree with you :)

blid

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Jan 23rd 2012, 3:21:59

anyone that hits me, if i dont recognize the name, i always still check my news right away to see if it was a retal because i cant understand why else anyone would ever hit me =)

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

tduong

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Jan 23rd 2012, 3:50:00

Retals are usually like a sucker punch in the back of the head in express. It's so cheap but oh well. What can you do. You can't not LG lol.

Originally posted by blid:

I haven't had a wrong opinion in years

Getafix

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Jan 23rd 2012, 4:23:09

I was quite prepared to risk a wasteland country. I was standing up for a principle. You guys can play Commies and win the set on NW by hitting small countries that can't retal, and using the GDI rules in Express to avoid the risk of a significant attack. You should expect attacks back from the small countries that want to netgain after they have gotten big. If you want to choose a strategy that involves starting fights, expect a fight, at least from me. And probably from the 79 others that were hit and had their games set back by oldman, once those players learn to play.

This is not personal Oldman, I just dislike the way the game has been developing where the most effective strategy for winning is bottomfeeding. I would like to see everyone make a point of attacking players that use that strategy. Maybe that will even things up.

blid

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Jan 23rd 2012, 4:26:05

Just taking a retal isn't enough to make your point?

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

Getafix

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Jan 23rd 2012, 4:33:54

I was landgrabbed without provocation. I landgrabbed back, and opened myself up to counterattack by the GDI rules. I think that made my point.

oldman

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Jan 23rd 2012, 4:38:18

Getafix: Great to hear it's nothing personal, same here. Also good to see that you were standing up for principle. But who's to say who's right or wrong? I don't think I'm wrong to bottomfeed and I don't think you're wrong to dislike it either. Everyone's entitled to an opinion. Your retal was fair and square and I accepted it but there're many people I know who won't, and that's not wrong either. But one thing I know for sure is that it's the survival of the fittest (both in this game and also in real life). You can stand up to it as much as you want, but it's probably a fact that you can't deny.

Getafix

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Jan 23rd 2012, 4:42:53

Right on Oldman. I'm a bit Quixotic in life and in games. At least this is just a game :)

oldman

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Jan 23rd 2012, 4:46:30

Chill =)

Still, it would have been the 15th 30M country in 112 rounds of Express, oh well.

tduong

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Jan 23rd 2012, 4:47:33

of course the most affective way to gain land is bottomfeeding. You get the most ghost acres and the least repercursions.
so highest gains and lowest losses=winning strat.
Unless they nerf the formula for bottomfeeding or raise humanitarians to 50% of nw, bottomfeeding remains the most profitable.

Originally posted by blid:

I haven't had a wrong opinion in years

tduong

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Jan 23rd 2012, 4:49:07

i was looking through some of my grabs as a dict and i was making grabs for 180 acres and getting about 520 after ghost acres lol.

Originally posted by blid:

I haven't had a wrong opinion in years