Are the new DR changes in place with this reset?

blid

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Feb 5th 2014, 4:42:52

Oh?!?! I thought the DR change wasn't ready yet!!

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

qzjul

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Feb 5th 2014, 4:44:12

well, it's ready now anyway =D Tested it in alphaffa, everything seems to be in order

Finally did the signature thing.

qzjul

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Feb 5th 2014, 4:44:35

(I got it working before the beginning of the reset)

Finally did the signature thing.

h2orich

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Feb 5th 2014, 4:46:48

qzjul said it started in FFA which started a few days ago, so I guess it starts in express too.. argh :(

qzjul

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Feb 5th 2014, 4:54:33

argh ?

I'll have you know this change was designed *primarily because of express*; That's the main reason we were looking at non-daily DR stuff =/

Finally did the signature thing.

blid

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Feb 5th 2014, 5:21:44

It's not bad for Express in particular, but Express will be particularly hard to calculate DR in. If I look at a country in eestats, and want to figure out the DR? I think it will take me like 10 mins per country... even without taking into account the over/undersend factor. We need tools!

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

blid

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Feb 5th 2014, 5:24:48

I guess at work tomorrow I'm going to be making a spreadsheet... sounds like honest work, right?

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

KoHeartsGPA

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Feb 5th 2014, 5:25:27

We really need that DR rule to start falling after 8 hrs, Qz, on this fast paced short lived server it makes sense to do it.

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blid

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Feb 5th 2014, 5:30:02

One thing I'm very curious about, how much harder will countries get farmed with the 8-hour base DR... because, at first it seems like much harder, as they can get farmed 3x per day instead of 1x per day (ignoring the half-life thing, for now). But, if they're farmed 3x per day, their land will become much lower faster. You won't have newbs bloating out to 10k acres on very low defense. Ah, but this just means their explore acres per turn will remain higher. So, more land on the server, I think. And with no d-allies, it will be easier to grab too. Now, the half-life thing, okay, that will slow us down some, but 8-hr is far enough removed from 24-hr that I think we will indeed get fatter than ever. 30k land shouldn't be too hard, but then the topfeeds will hapen too because of the no DAs, haha.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

blid

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Feb 5th 2014, 5:30:41

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:

We really need that DR rule to start falling after 8 hrs

The DR rule needs to fall after 8 hours? Can you clarify what this request means?

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

KoHeartsGPA

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Feb 5th 2014, 5:34:26

It'll be interesting to see how it all comes out, your calculations and theory on farming makes sense, blid, but people usually don't wait too long to login anyway due to the pace of the server, so I think it'll make for better gameplay overall.

KoHeartsGPA

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Feb 5th 2014, 5:36:15

Originally posted by blid:

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:

We really need that DR rule to start falling after 8 hrs

The DR rule needs to fall after 8 hours? Can you clarify what this request means?

Now takes 24 hrs for Dr to drop, right?, so go to 8 or perhaps 10 hrs...

qzjul

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Feb 5th 2014, 7:15:25

No spreadsheet required, just a brain =D

If you're willing to do some aggressive rounding, it works out fairly nicely


Age  DR
0h   1
4h   0.7  (-.3)
8h   0.5  (-.2)
12h  0.4  (-.1)
16h  0.3  (-.1)
20h  0.2  (-.1)
24h  0.1  (-.1)

36h  0.05 
48h  0.01  
72h  0.001

In other words, for every 4 hours in age it drops 0.3, 0.2, 0.1, 0.1, 0.1, 0.1 for the first day, and drops by 10x the next day, and 10x the day after that...

Finally did the signature thing.

blid

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Feb 5th 2014, 13:09:14

But imagine clicking a country on Saturday and finding he's been hit 15 times since the round started. You'll need to add up the timing of those 15 hits to get an approximation on the DR. That's a lot of adding. And that's just for considering the rough DR of one target. You may decide not to hit him. Oh, and you want to attack roughly 3-5 people every 2 hours.

Definitely need something.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

blid

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Feb 5th 2014, 13:21:52

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:

Originally posted by blid:

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:

We really need that DR rule to start falling after 8 hrs

The DR rule needs to fall after 8 hours? Can you clarify what this request means?

Now takes 24 hrs for Dr to drop, right?, so go to 8 or perhaps 10 hrs...

Haha, what's the title of this topic? The "new DR changes"! That's because the DR just got changed. 8 hour "half-life," read the announcement forum for more.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

Cable

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Feb 5th 2014, 13:46:27

Sigh.... I use EEStats kff my phone to play and with these new changes I highly doubt I will continue. I can't spend 5 minutes figuring out DR on every person I grab. Like Blid says a player grabs alot every two hours. Approximately 45 grabs in 36 hours of game play, so now its learn quick math or avoid targets hit a ton of times......

blid

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Feb 5th 2014, 16:10:45

I'm not sure if qzjul understands the kind of target searching an active grabber does. Most of us use eestats because we can pull up the list of countries and see immediately, right there, the DR on each country, next to their networth and land, and we can decide if this is a grab candidate and then go spy on them. We scan up and down the eestats page looking at dozens of countries in a few seconds. Now each country of those dozens will have to be clicked on and analyzed before any impression can be made.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

Cable

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Feb 5th 2014, 16:37:49

Yah thats exactlty it, all this is done with 0.01 till jets are home so I can plan 5 grabs and be done in a short period of time as possible.

Xinhuan

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Feb 5th 2014, 16:48:33

Or, one of you can email bore/eestats about the DR change, so he can code in the new DR formula...

blid

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Feb 5th 2014, 16:52:47

I made an extension to my Chrome to display the correct DR on eestats, assuming 15% oversends on all successes and 90% undersends on all bounces. But that's just for me, I'm not sharing that

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

blid

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Feb 5th 2014, 16:54:31

Also I didn't actually do that, which is another reason I'm not sharing it. But if I had, I'd be instantly way ahead of everyone else

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

bstrong86

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Feb 5th 2014, 17:45:58

Is it still ?

The Death Knights

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h2orich

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Feb 5th 2014, 18:05:28

its never gonna be making 5 PSes in 5 mins on express every 2-3 hrs. cant play off mobile now.. that sucks.. i'm seldom home.

blid

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Feb 5th 2014, 18:07:31

Originally posted by bstrong86:

Is it still ?

yep

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

bstrong86

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Feb 5th 2014, 18:24:59

Sent it. Hopefully he can do it

The Death Knights

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Cable

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Feb 5th 2014, 19:15:24

Originally posted by h2orich:

its never gonna be making 5 PSes in 5 mins on express every 2-3 hrs. cant play off mobile now.. that sucks.. i'm seldom home.

This is my exact problem as well, I play on my mobile from work but I cant afford 20 min to plan out grabs...... All X lazy finish or I guess ill play every other weekend

Xinhuan

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Feb 5th 2014, 19:43:04

Tip: The DR contribution of a single attack is

0.5^(x/n)

where

x = Number of hours since the attack happened
n = The attack's half life in hours = 8*oversend factor

The attack's base half life is 8 on Express. This is multiplied by the Oversend Factor, which is usually at least 1.1 for successful attacks, at most 1.0 for failed attacks. No matter what though, n cannot go lower than 6 or higher than 12 for Express. If you like Excel or something, you can do the clamping of n to between 6 and 12 with one of the following:

=MEDIAN(6, 12, 8*oversend factor)
=MIN(MAX(8*oversend factor, 6), 12)

Now all the above are in hours, you can use minutes if you wish. x and n divide by each other and whatever time unit you want to use cancels out anyway.

KoHeartsGPA

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Feb 5th 2014, 19:48:16

Originally posted by Cable:

Originally posted by h2orich:

its never gonna be making 5 PSes in 5 mins on express every 2-3 hrs. cant play off mobile now.. that sucks.. i'm seldom home.

This is my exact problem as well, I play on my mobile from work but I cant afford 20 min to plan out grabs...... All X lazy finish or I guess ill play every other weekend

Ya, I'll keep warring, or go all X :-)

Cable

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Feb 5th 2014, 22:08:56

You will keep warring or go all x?

Can you enlighten us where the fluff this comment comes from? You play all x ans retal and if RoRed you will War? Is that what your saying? Because that had nothing to do with this topic or post.

Getafix

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Feb 5th 2014, 22:30:12

That's really useful Xinhuan, thanks. I'm playing around with 0.5^1/8 etc

assuming n=8 to simplify things for selecting targets, it gets really easy

after 1 hour, DR = 0.5^0.125 = 0.917

here is my table that I typed out in OneNote:

DR= 0.5^0.125=0.917 1 hour x/n=1/8
.5^.25=0.8409 2 hours x/n=2/8
.5^.375=0.7711 3 hours
.5^.5=0.7071 4 hrs
.5^.625=0.6484 5 hrs
.5^.75=0.5946 6hrs
.5^.875=0.5453 7 hrs
.5^1=0.5 8 hours x/n=1

Then we just add all the DR's up for multiple hits.

(PS And I don't know about you , but I had to look up the ^ (caret) symbol to confirm that it means "to the power of". And if you want to calculate this exactly using Windows calculator you'll have to use the scientific view)

Edited By: Getafix on Feb 6th 2014, 2:22:02. Reason: just correcting where put "n" where it should say x/n
See Original Post

blid

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Feb 5th 2014, 23:20:51

That's still not easy because you can't scan the whole list of countries and see DRs. Hell, it's still not easy even when you click on a country history because in a day or two there will be like 15 different attacks from varying different times ago. It's "easy" in that it's possible to add up, that's about it.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

KoHeartsGPA

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Feb 5th 2014, 23:28:05

Originally posted by Cable:

I was going to start playing CI and my goal was to get to one day be as good as Serp, for that you need to go grabbing lots of land, I'm on mobile and don't have the patience or time to start calculating all this fluff, give me a simple DR when I look at a country on eestats and go!, there if you aren't "enlightened", too bad.

Cable

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Feb 6th 2014, 1:12:46

No that makes precfect sense

h2orich

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Feb 6th 2014, 3:10:04

what about when you LG someone? how does your DR change? If you're at DR 2.5 for example,
does it goes from 2.5 - 1.5 immediately?

Xinhuan

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Feb 6th 2014, 3:53:20

Originally posted by h2orich:

what about when you LG someone? how does your DR change? If you're at DR 2.5 for example,
does it goes from 2.5 - 1.5 immediately?

http://www.earthempires.com/forum/post/534410/perm

h2orich

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Feb 6th 2014, 4:03:33

that means more calculations involved. hurray.

KoHeartsGPA

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Feb 6th 2014, 4:18:41

Originally posted by h2orich:

that means more calculations involved. hurray.

They're taking the G out of game replacing it with an L.

/me thinking about leaving again

Make it simple Qz, tell us the DR of a target in a spy op, add a new spy op for all I care.

h2orich

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Feb 6th 2014, 6:44:48

thats even worse KoH.. waste turns to spy on a target's DR?

KoHeartsGPA

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Feb 6th 2014, 6:51:52

Originally posted by h2orich:

thats even worse KoH.. waste turns to spy on a target's DR?

You no longer need to Ally spy...

h2orich

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Feb 6th 2014, 9:39:48

what about the other servers?

Cable

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Feb 6th 2014, 11:44:59

Awesome.... what a fluffing joke to calculate DR, hopefull EEstats can update before the second comming of christ (no offense intended) thats just absurd to to calculate especially on express.

133tz

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Feb 6th 2014, 12:36:00

no allie

I am an EE noob.

crest23

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Feb 6th 2014, 15:07:24

Originally posted by h2orich:

thats even worse KoH.. waste turns to spy on a target's DR?

Then do the math yourself and go grab that 20 acres cause the guy is deep in DR, sheez! Complete lack of any sense.

The Nigerian Nightmare.

crest23

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Feb 6th 2014, 15:07:52

Originally posted by 133tz:

no allie

More like no country, you got deleted son.

The Nigerian Nightmare.

KoHeartsGPA

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Feb 6th 2014, 16:04:22

Originally posted by crest23:

Originally posted by 133tz:

no allie

More like no country, you got deleted son.

Oh.... PM piss mach?

tellarion

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Feb 6th 2014, 16:38:30

Originally posted by crest23:

Originally posted by 133tz:

no allie

More like no country, you got deleted son.

He did? By who??