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qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,128

Mar 17th 2018, 7:52:23

I'm experimenting with having bots ally each other. This is a work in progress and may start happening randomly as I'm testing things.
Finally did the signature thing.

drkprinc

Member

4910

Mar 17th 2018, 7:53:02

evil evil man.
(<(<>(<>.(<>..<>).<>)<>)>)

zz.ghqnet.com - 0.o
http://LaF.center - LaF
imp.ghqnet.com - IMP

sinistril

Member

1077

Mar 17th 2018, 9:31:38

I like it.
Originally posted by Syko_Killa:
It's apparent something is going on behind the scenes that is giving IMP the edge. I just dont know how to prove it, but I know something is going on.


Marshal

Member

27,336

Mar 17th 2018, 10:36:38

nice, now botfarmers need to use bit more time to calc breaks.
Patience: Yep, I'm with ELK and Marshal.

ELKronos: Patty is more hairy.

Galleri: Sadly pics of my boobies are on my ftp-folder.

LadyGrizz boobies is fine

NOW3P: Morwen is a much harsher mistress than boredom....

The_Hawk

Member

1311

Mar 17th 2018, 20:17:21

Any reason this can't be done on a test server?
Originally posted by Syko_Killa:
Qzjul tells me these reports are all psychological and no mods are abusing privaleges.

I AM BATMAN

Member

56

Mar 17th 2018, 20:31:50

IT"S BATMAN NOT BOTMAN!

Marshal

Member

27,336

Mar 17th 2018, 22:26:35

you are still idit.
Patience: Yep, I'm with ELK and Marshal.

ELKronos: Patty is more hairy.

Galleri: Sadly pics of my boobies are on my ftp-folder.

LadyGrizz boobies is fine

NOW3P: Morwen is a much harsher mistress than boredom....

archaic

Member

6195

Mar 18th 2018, 5:08:27

Originally posted by Marshal:
you are still idit.


I don't even have words for this ~
CandyMan: stop doing KR on our originals.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,128

Mar 18th 2018, 5:09:54

Originally posted by The_Hawk:
Any reason this can't be done on a test server?


I did, but it can technically send allies to non-NPC's....

but it's probably a decent idea to get it rolling into actual servers anyway
Finally did the signature thing.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,128

Mar 18th 2018, 5:10:01

Also they may join GDI now
Finally did the signature thing.

cyref

Member

668

Mar 18th 2018, 12:43:46

I welcome tweaks to the game!

But tbh i'm a little put off when they are rolled out in the middle of a set.

Just one opinion. I'll go with the flow. And thanks for putting some work into the game =)
👽

The_Hawk

Member

1311

Mar 18th 2018, 13:29:14

I don't mind updates but adding this stuff with 20 days to go while running a strat that is geared to grabbing bots puts a damper on my plans.

Its like cutting the amount of tech a techer can tech per lab halfway through a set.
Originally posted by Syko_Killa:
Qzjul tells me these reports are all psychological and no mods are abusing privaleges.

ddd

Member

601

Mar 18th 2018, 17:14:15

what they said lol

thanks for workin on it but i also think its the wrong time for sure

totally ruined my strat but then so did sinistril and the goofball from st louis

drkprinc

Member

4910

Mar 19th 2018, 9:41:26

guess we go back to farming new players when we get them much more cost effective.
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zz.ghqnet.com - 0.o
http://LaF.center - LaF
imp.ghqnet.com - IMP

drkprinc

Member

4910

Mar 19th 2018, 10:45:29

also seriously if the bots are going to have defense allies can you fix the report on ally losses to properly reflect troops/turrets/tanks and not some randomized number of troops/tanks that doesn't add up ever.
(<(<>(<>.(<>..<>).<>)<>)>)

zz.ghqnet.com - 0.o
http://LaF.center - LaF
imp.ghqnet.com - IMP

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,128

Mar 19th 2018, 15:09:13

Originally posted by cyref:

But tbh i'm a little put off when they are rolled out in the middle of a set.


I hear you there. It's hard to keep separate branches of bots going (bugfixes, feature additions), and easier to test against a dynamic market, so that's part of why I've been doing that. Also, two months between iterations of bots makes development slow.

I probably won't make them start *grabbing* until next reset. Anything that does roll in will be not a huge issue...


Originally posted by drkprinc:
also seriously if the bots are going to have defense allies can you fix the report on ally losses to properly reflect troops/turrets/tanks and not some randomized number of troops/tanks that doesn't add up ever.


I must have forgotten about that; can you post it on B&S?
Finally did the signature thing.

Gerdler

Member

1251

Mar 20th 2018, 6:20:47

I think in general it's awesome. The increase of bots from 100 to 250 had the largest effect and it really could have been a smaller increase imo. Though it has weeded out the weaker netters in new ways than we have seen before:

1. for the longest time people were not maxing ghosts on the new bots
2. those who did not adapt to the change screwed themselves in various ways that might have been great with 100 bots.
3. people did not properly choose between the new bots that were small and without DR and the large old bots in DR. There were people grabbing 300 acres with low breaks when others were grabbing 100 acres on bots that actually required jets to hit. :)

New challenges.

I truly liked the fact that some bots were started later. If that feature could remain at least for alliance I would prefer it.

maverickmd

Member

728

Mar 20th 2018, 17:58:27

Making changes in the middle of a round is kinda bullfluff.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,128

Mar 21st 2018, 15:39:49

Originally posted by Gerdler:
I think in general it's awesome. The increase of bots from 100 to 250 had the largest effect and it really could have been a smaller increase imo. Though it has weeded out the weaker netters in new ways than we have seen before:

1. for the longest time people were not maxing ghosts on the new bots
2. those who did not adapt to the change screwed themselves in various ways that might have been great with 100 bots.
3. people did not properly choose between the new bots that were small and without DR and the large old bots in DR. There were people grabbing 300 acres with low breaks when others were grabbing 100 acres on bots that actually required jets to hit. :)

New challenges.

I truly liked the fact that some bots were started later. If that feature could remain at least for alliance I would prefer it.


I could easily make the number of bots allowed by the AI depended on turns elapsed; that would take like 5 mins to do...
Finally did the signature thing.

maverickmd

Member

728

Mar 22nd 2018, 13:14:24

So now the bots are buying turrets and have allies and are 8 million SS?? This is fun. You made the game better. Thanks for doing it in the middle of a 2 month round too.

Celphi

Member

5072

Mar 23rd 2018, 15:25:33

It was going to have to be in the middle of one of the sets of one of the servers. Of all sets this probably the best one to do it. Plus, from a programming perspective., you can tweak them better during a set with live data rather than guessing.
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Primeval

Game Moderator
Mod Boss
2143

Mar 23rd 2018, 17:54:42

Originally posted by Celphi:
It was going to have to be in the middle of one of the sets of one of the servers. ... Plus, from a programming perspective., you can tweak them better during a set with live data rather than guessing.


This^

Viceroy

Member

892

Mar 23rd 2018, 18:33:45

The fact that this is true does not make it any less of a developmental failure.
And, Monsters, do not forget to specify, when time and place shall serve, that I am an ass.

maverickmd

Member

728

Mar 23rd 2018, 19:15:39

yeah or you could load a different bot script for each server.

maverickmd

Member

728

Mar 23rd 2018, 19:18:07

And its not just that. its that the changes are stupid. And bots that are 8 million to break is just silly.

Celphi

Member

5072

Mar 23rd 2018, 21:26:50

Qzjul has made the project public. You are more than welcomed to contribute your suggestions.

Bots were never meant to be an alternative to the explore button. They are structured to function like players. And some players do in fact carry high defenses. Where bots fail to provide a competitive strategy are being worked out.

Not all the bots carry high defenses. Some carry low defenses.

At some point, bots will be difficult to distinguish from a real player.


At the of the day, you cannot argue that more players playing the game would be a determent to the game. So, as progress is made towards more bots to function like players and go undetectable the better the game experience will be.
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,128

Mar 24th 2018, 2:21:37

Yea, I'll make them more variable soon probably. The fact that they were low def was actually a combination of 2 or 3 bugs heh...
Finally did the signature thing.

Primeval

Game Moderator
Mod Boss
2143

Apr 3rd 2018, 19:38:48

Originally posted by Celphi:
Qzjul has made the project public. You are more than welcomed to contribute your suggestions.




This^ again

Gerdler

Member

1251

Apr 4th 2018, 9:31:07

Originally posted by maverickmd:
And its not just that. its that the changes are stupid. And bots that are 8 million to break is just silly.


Why is this silly? People are still grabbing them til very late in the reset so its clearly worthwhile. I can't think of a reason for why the bot breaks should be 2m rather than 8m. Ofc theres a limit each way but right now the bots are worth grabbing til late and they are not absurdly easy to break like perhaps in previous sets.

They have become harder to break and because there are more of them they are yielding more acres due to less DR. I can't say unequivocally that its good or bad but it is definatly more interesting than undefended bots that are hit 5-12 times a day.

Ivan

Member

2320

Apr 4th 2018, 20:48:36

cant really compare to bots hit 5-12 hits a day this set they werent hit that much because there were less people grabbing due to the wars when the changes were made next set when you have 3 times the amount of grabbers and get 30% if yer lucky of the returns on those 8m SS breaks its gonna suck

I dont really see anyone wanting the def allies tbh

Gerdler

Member

1251

Apr 4th 2018, 22:13:38

First off you got 250 bots instead of 100 and we are always gonna have wars, this set has seen more grabbers than some sets in the past and if fewer players feel its worth it to grab, fewer are gonna grab even when netting...

So increasing the break will reduce the DR for sure.

Imo its important, with the current DR formula that the majority of the bots are in the level of DR in which DR matters, which means 2-13. Further, it should not be really high on that scale or it will be impossible to compete as a grabbing non-tyranny. For example having rep cashers start out as tyrannies is really a sign of too high DR.

I have no idea what the bots def allies will do to the early game but for the late game i think it works real nice so far. It costs more to grab, and it was absurdly cheap before. Grabbing more tech and cash worth than the jets and oil I used on hitting doesn't seem reasonable to me. That is still the case but with fewer bots, mercily.

Edited By: Gerdler on Apr 5th 2018, 12:23:25
See Original Post

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,128

Apr 5th 2018, 23:49:21

Originally posted by Gerdler:
First off you got 250 bots instead of 100 and we are always gonna have wars, this set has seen more grabbers than some sets in the past and if fewer players feel its worth it to grab, fewer are gonna grab even when netting...

So increasing the break will reduce the DR for sure.

Imo its important, with the current DR formula that the majority of the bots are in the level of DR in which DR matters, which means 2-13. Further, it should not be really high on that scale or it will be impossible to compete as a grabbing non-tyranny. For example having rep cashers start out as tyrannies is really a sign of too high DR.

I have no idea what the bots def allies will do to the early game but for the late game i think it works real nice so far. It costs more to grab, and it was absurdly cheap before. Grabbing more tech and cash worth than the jets and oil I used on hitting doesn't seem reasonable to me. That is still the case but with fewer bots, mercily.


Also by costing more to grab, it improves things like weapons tech prices, and miltiary prices; and maybe medical tech prices? There are a few potential positives.

NB: I had more thoughts but forgot them in the hours since i started typing this....
Finally did the signature thing.

sinistril

Member

1077

Apr 6th 2018, 7:59:55

It won't help med-tech prices since med-tech only works for defence but yeah might help weapons tech and military prices, and perhaps make Dictator an appealing non-wartime government? It should be interesting to see the full effect next set to see if tweaks need to be done.

I suspect Rep cashers will suffer in favor of Theo cashers once people adjust...

Edited By: sinistril on Apr 6th 2018, 8:03:05
Originally posted by Syko_Killa:
It's apparent something is going on behind the scenes that is giving IMP the edge. I just dont know how to prove it, but I know something is going on.


Ivan

Member

2320

Apr 6th 2018, 17:27:18

allies doesnt really help with the problem alliance has, FFO is still pretty much the only strategy that can win

Gerdler

Member

1251

Apr 6th 2018, 18:50:22

That is true but that is a completely unrelated issue. We wanna solve it then change the oil destock mechanic. :)

Karnage XZ

Member

409

Apr 6th 2018, 21:42:13

This is all great, still would like to see the bots retaliate and form clans. At least one bot wartag to satisfy the human bloodlust. They could do the macdaddy style killruns everyones been fussing about. Bots should be started in week intervals for the first 4-5 weeks. They should also have a limit to how many hits they can each take in a reset by the same player. Meaning after 5 hits you cant hit the same bot again. Get a humanitarians message when you try on six. This would also make bot farming a little more competetive and fair. But that should only be for ss or ps. You should be able to kill the bots.

Marshal

Member

27,336

Apr 6th 2018, 22:03:05

players can already kill bots but its very frowned upon.
Patience: Yep, I'm with ELK and Marshal.

ELKronos: Patty is more hairy.

Galleri: Sadly pics of my boobies are on my ftp-folder.

LadyGrizz boobies is fine

NOW3P: Morwen is a much harsher mistress than boredom....

drkprinc

Member

4910

Apr 6th 2018, 22:16:29

Originally posted by Karnage XZ:
This is all great, still would like to see the bots retaliate and form clans. At least one bot wartag to satisfy the human bloodlust. They could do the macdaddy style killruns everyones been fussing about. Bots should be started in week intervals for the first 4-5 weeks. They should also have a limit to how many hits they can each take in a reset by the same player. Meaning after 5 hits you cant hit the same bot again. Get a humanitarians message when you try on six. This would also make bot farming a little more competetive and fair. But that should only be for ss or ps. You should be able to kill the bots.


its called C:C DR you need to rotate your crops to yield the most, so let the noobs go an hit a bot 20 times in a week I'll go around hitting multiple bots 3x a week.
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zz.ghqnet.com - 0.o
http://LaF.center - LaF
imp.ghqnet.com - IMP

Karnage XZ

Member

409

Apr 7th 2018, 1:46:38

Ok so make it 3 hits per country per set. I know you can kill bots, I was just saying don't take the ability away. You should probably take away 50 of the bots and just suplement 200 bots total, I think you implemented too many for the second wave if you made 250. Im looking at the rankings and some guys have over 300k land from bot farming. That's completely ridiculous for 1a. I was always for bots. I just think it should be regulated a bit more. People in tags like omega and monsters have been relatively safe from the hostilities of the game and in my opinion would not otherwise have the skill to obtain this type of land and finish on their own.

sinistril

Member

1077

Apr 7th 2018, 2:26:55

Originally posted by Karnage XZ:
Ok so make it 3 hits per country per set. I know you can kill bots, I was just saying don't take the ability away. You should probably take away 50 of the bots and just suplement 200 bots total, I think you implemented too many for the second wave if you made 250. Im looking at the rankings and some guys have over 300k land from bot farming. That's completely ridiculous for 1a. I was always for bots. I just think it should be regulated a bit more. People in tags like omega and monsters have been relatively safe from the hostilities of the game and in my opinion would not otherwise have the skill to obtain this type of land and finish on their own.


The bots weren't allied for the majority of the set, doubt they'll hit this land next set without hurting their finish especially if bots retal.
Originally posted by Syko_Killa:
It's apparent something is going on behind the scenes that is giving IMP the edge. I just dont know how to prove it, but I know something is going on.


Ivan

Member

2320

Apr 7th 2018, 17:31:19

im glad ive been relatively safe from hostilies in this game........ (warring noob etc)

Havoc

Member

3843

Apr 15th 2018, 16:48:51

There was some mention of bots being programmed to grab at random, is that going to happen this set? Would be nice to have a warning before they just start doing that.
Havoc
Unholy Monks | The Omega | Pandora's Last Vikings

Marshal

Member

27,336

Apr 15th 2018, 19:12:21

not this set.
Patience: Yep, I'm with ELK and Marshal.

ELKronos: Patty is more hairy.

Galleri: Sadly pics of my boobies are on my ftp-folder.

LadyGrizz boobies is fine

NOW3P: Morwen is a much harsher mistress than boredom....

Crippler ICD

Member

3093

Apr 17th 2018, 20:45:58

check back 1/2 way through the set :P
Crippler
FoCuS
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CripplerTD

[14:26] <enshula> i cant believe im going to say this
[14:26] <enshula> crippler is giving us correct netting advice

Marshal

Member

27,336

Apr 17th 2018, 20:47:19

crippy is always so optimistic.
Patience: Yep, I'm with ELK and Marshal.

ELKronos: Patty is more hairy.

Galleri: Sadly pics of my boobies are on my ftp-folder.

LadyGrizz boobies is fine

NOW3P: Morwen is a much harsher mistress than boredom....

Gerdler

Member

1251

Apr 22nd 2018, 20:28:25

Originally posted by Havoc:
There was some mention of bots being programmed to grab at random, is that going to happen this set? Would be nice to have a warning before they just start doing that.

Would be interesting if some player take a weekend off, being t3 in land on the server then come back having been farmed like 20x by the bots. :P

"gg no re"
-qzjul
:P

DruncK

Member

1492

Apr 22nd 2018, 20:36:24

Just make the bots only grab equal builds =\ Also everyone here seems to forget that there are 3 slots for off allies and only 2 for def

Marshal

Member

27,336

Apr 22nd 2018, 21:02:06

define equal builds.
Patience: Yep, I'm with ELK and Marshal.

ELKronos: Patty is more hairy.

Galleri: Sadly pics of my boobies are on my ftp-folder.

LadyGrizz boobies is fine

NOW3P: Morwen is a much harsher mistress than boredom....