the purpose of guns is to kill, a vehicles purpose isnt to kill

most everybody punches holes in paper with firearms and waits for the boogie man, who never comes. So technically, firearms main purpose is to punch holes in paper. Unless your society is being groomed for folks with mental problems like where it's safe to fluff or speak.

Actually shotguns have industrial uses...

When running rotary kiln calciners sphere-ish shape aggregates form that can cause problems in the equipment. One common method to fix it is to open the drum up and destroy the aggregates with a few blasts of the shotgun. It's quick and elegant compared to the alternatives, which often require the equipment to be cooled down somewhat, taking hours to accomplish. While the aggregation should firstly be prevented, and can be to a great extent, the majority of such plants do run into this problem every now and then, for one reason or another.

I'm not saying this is the main use of a shotgun, but easy access to firearms comes with some industrial benefits. :)

You will never stop evil people Ivan. It has nothing to do with guns.

Forks kill fat people, not heart attacks

That'd be funny if well-meaning liberals weren't trying to ban sugar.

I have easily shot 10k rounds in my life. I have shot 0 people. Plenty of deer, cyotes, ducks, and boars though.

In fact, I'm 0-1 for shooting someone and getting shot.

took one for the world training a trigger happy tard not to shoot people !

https://www.naturalnews.com/...sacre-expended-brass.html

anybody read this yet?

I think that is the obesity comparison is a bad one. Vehicles slightly better. Simply because while obesity surely can kill innocent bystanders in theory, and it may even have happened, it is freak occurrences and is dare I say, never the intention of supersizing those meals, eating those extra chips or drinking that gallon of soda a day.

I would so love it if someone prooved me wrong on that one though! :)

Has to be someone who was thin who premeditated a murder on someone by way of sitting or otherwise crushing them with their body weight once they managed to gain 50 lbs or more. Otherwise I'm not buying it! :P

Also it's very hard to imagine some guy killing dozens of people in a country music festival crowd by way of his own obesity.

Don't get me wrong I wanna be able to buy guns, sugar and vehicles, and I am. Though I feel completely fine with needing licences both for the car and for the gun, but not the sugar. I am also fine with that if I'm convicted of certain crimes both my right to own a gun and drive a car can be withdrawn from me, but not to buy or eat sugar. And I'm totally fine with that the right to buy a firearm and the right to manouvre a vehicle are both earned rights and not human rights or citizen rights. I need a licence for each and to get it I need to meet certain demands. I think of it as common sense that someone sees to it that I am capable of handling and storing such potentially dangerous equipment(a car and a gun) in a safe manner.

When I apply for a license with the police, which I have to do for each gun purchase I make, I can apply for a maximum of 4 firearms at the same time. So I'm fully capable of arming myself to the teeth even though Sweden has very restrictive gun control, too restrictive in some aspects for my taste, even though it never affected me.

Different states have different gun laws.

Speaking from experience, growing up in one state you had a quick federal back ground check before buying any gun, usually 10 min. To purchase a pistol you had to apply with the sherrifs office for a pistol purchase permit and the background check usually tool 5 days to a month depending on backlog. You ca purchase multiple pistol purchase permits at one time, $5 each. In leiu of a pistol purchase permit, you can take your concealed carry class and apply for a permit. The class is 8 hours and it usually takes 1-3 months to get the permit depending on back log. Once you have your CCW permit, it acts as your pistol purchase permit.

And you could not go to another state to purchase a pistol. If you found a gun you wanted in another state, you had to have it shipped to a licensed FFL dealer, who would review your permits and background and transfer the gun for a fee.

Other states have no permits or waits at all. Some have processes much harsher.

The state I live in now has a 3 day wait for all non concealed carry permit holders when purchasing a pistol. The wait is waived for CCW holders.

It is all very complicated. But to suggest that anyone can go purchase any gun anywhere in the US is not accurate.

What are the rules for a gun show in your state?

The real issue is that criminals don't buy guns from a dealer they get them from the street/black market.

You couldn't possibly confiscate every weapon either as there are too many out there.

One solution to me is to have more security and prevention in hotel lobbies, at least in vegas or highly trafficked areas.

I cant get into a NFL game or Airport without being checked why is that? Because its a heavily populated area with a lot of people in close proximity. Well a hotel in Vegas isnt much different.

And for you CC people, what good would your pistol have done vs his automatic rifles/ machine guns? Not much.

No NASCAR race I have been to has anything other than bag and cooler checks. No glass is the cooler rule. Never a metal detector. Ironic right? Never have, and it is against the rules, but carrying in one would not be hard. There are a ton of cops and rapid responce teams in attendance though.

Just because my CCW would not have helped in the Vegas shooting doesn't mean it wouldn't have helped ever. The Giffords and recent church shooting involved CCW carriers confronting the shooter.

But I don't carry to stop mass shootings anyways. They are a small fraction of violent deaths and confrontations.

You just shoot your leg!

I didnt, but fair play.

Having been across the street, and on the police scanner during the assault, none of the questions there bother me. Firstly, it was 500-1000 rounds fired. We don't have complete pictures of the room, so the lack of spent brass probably just isn't pictured. The cops got there about 4-5 minutes after the shooting started, but it took them 72 minutes to enter his room because the first cops to get up there saw he had already fired dozens of rounds through his door apparently at a security guard. It took a while for a SWAT team to get up there and breach the door. It didn't really matter, because the shooting was done after about 15 minutes.

Jack the Ripper only needed a sharp blade to terrorize the entire city of London. The point here isn't whether Jack could get 60 women in a night with his blade - the point here is that pure evil pre-dates and will post-date the firearm. Humanity will never stop creating new and horrible ways to hurt and kill one another.

Even if you could get all the legal guns (the only ones you're getting with any new legislation), the next madman to be mad enough to kill 60 people will just drive his car through a park. When you outlaw cars, the next maniac will do it with a big fire. After you take away matches, the next jackass will kill with something else. You will never get anywhere trying to solve human problems by shuffling inanimate objects into and out of our reach. You're simply avoiding the hard truth - guns aren't at fault, people are. People will commit evil against one another and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

http://www.betootaadvocate.com/...ssive-gun-control-regime/

ivan u dam liberal fool u take away guns so they use other means and kill MORE PEOPLE per attack like oklahoma huh

u have a right to your opinion of course but IT SUCKS

Ivan. If gun control works so good why do places like Chicago have the highest murder rate? They have strict gun laws.

And the surrounding states? they check every car and or person crossing between states? and what do you mean with strict?

ddd its a fluffload harder to make a bomb then to purchase a weapon and start shooting :P

Ok Ivan how will gun laws help with people killing other people? Everyone around where I live has guns. Can't think of a person that doesn't.. we have had 0 gun deaths in the 30 years I have been alive. So it's hard for me to understand that guns kill people. I have a shot gun loaded all the time.. it has never once got up and went on a shooting spree. Seems to just sit in the corner and mind its own business.

I dont see why you need automatic guns or bumpstocks. Where does the 2nd amendment end? I want a tank.

Im not advocating a gun ban but id think maybe some limitations are due.

Who needs a silencer?

It think everyone needs to step back and evaluate things in this country.

I even think we should be researching medications doctors just hand out and big pharma spends lots of money covering up. Such as the dangers of over prescribing SSRIs.

There are no easy answers here and if you think you are right you are wrong.

Like I said, supressors are extremely useful for hunting. Most states that have legalized supressors without a class 3 license have done so for hunting use.

You don't have to use ear pro, and when your objective is to kill as many boar as humanly possible it helps a lot. The only suppressor I own is for my SOCOM 16 and it is the best boar gun I posess. Helps hide the muzzle flash which maintains your night vision, doesnt spook the pack on the first shot, and keeps noise pollution down which is helpful when you are unloading at 2am.

I would like to know where I can buy a fully auto gun.

Bump stocks weren't regulated because they aren't a firearm it's a stock with a spring in it. Horribly inaccurate.

Have you ever shot a gun with a suppressor requiem. They are hardly quiet.

Yet another who believes movies and talks about something they know nothing about.

One thing I don't get, how can you be accused of being liberal when you want more restrictions? If anything restrictions of freedom is what liberalism opposes most and what socialism especially but also conservatism likes to implement in various forms into peoples lives or business.

If you want more gun control that is not a liberal view in any way. Lower taxes are, and that's in general what republicans want. Republicans are liberal when it comes to taxes, business and guns and conservative or even socialist when it comes to birth control, weed, trade and international relations(well those last two might not reflect all republicans but at least DTs GOP).

I'm guessing you can say democrats are liberal in some issues, though not when it comes to taxes, guns or buisiness. And it becomes a little bit strange when you accuse someone of being liberal for wanting more restrictions, as that is per definition the opposite of being liberal.

Also how can the same people call one side fascist and in the next sentence call them liberal? WTF is up with that? Fascism can be a blend of ideologies but liberalism does not enter into it's hemisphere.

That's my problem with the definitions of conservative/liberal. No one is so... without nuance. That said, Republicans are sure as hell not socialist on any of the things you mentioned. That's a perfectly incorrect definition. Birth control, generally, they are not against it, nor are they against access to it. The whole shtick that they are against access to it is, frankly, an Orwellian lie. They just don't want to pay for someone else's birth control. Democrats are hard socialist on that. Weed... I would not call their stance on that socialist. Close-minded and overly restrictive would be a better way of putting it. Trade... the full-on nationalist view is just a DT talking point. But that's not socialist. The ideas on that long pre-date socialism. It's rather monarchical, if anything. But probably the best way to put that is economic ignorance. And international relations... do you mean Trump wanting to be more or less internationalist? I don't really know in what way that is socialist. Less interventionist would be paleoconservative. More intervention would just be continuing a long tradition that dates to the beginnings of written history and long before that (if oral history can be counted as valid).

The Liberal fascism accusation probably comes from Jonah Goldberg and it is not an accusation that a small l liberal is a fascist, but rather, those who brand themselves as Liberal (Progressives.) have quite a lot in common with fascism. Fascism and Progressivism were born around the same time and touted eachothers horns for a long time. Like twins that don't talk anymore. They may not have contact with eachother these days but they're still nearly identical.

Why does everybody look to blame religious or political views as a motive. Evil does evil, everything else is just manipulated to coerce people into committing acts of evil.

All that does is cause segragation and descrimination against specific groups of people so they become persecuted. Same thing happened to the jews.

Often, there is an underlying religious or political motive. This doesn't really seem to be the case here, from what I can tell. The right wants to blame politics I'm sure because this guy was, according to some, at least one time a registered Democrat (but never voted?). The left wants to blame religion because anytime it's not a Muslim they feel like they won the lottery (even though I'm not sure this guy was religious at all or even gave it thought?). The gun control advocates want to blame guns and the drug control advocates want to blame drugs (there's probably a shred of truth to the idea his medication played a small role in this)... I think, though, you're right. Some people are just pure evil and it doesn't matter what you do or how you raise them, they're just predisposed to be psychopaths. It looks like it runs in his genes.

The younger brother who never met the dad seems to be fine, so its not the genes. The one who went nuts new the dad as a child, i think its safe to say he picked up on the negativity and was probably taught some mucked up ideologies. Bad trees create bad fruits and good trees create good fruits. So be good parents.

This guy "seemed" to be fine for 65 years apparently.... and some genetics don't pass on. I mean... I'm the only one in my family with blue eyes in the last 2 generations. It happens.

I do know there's been a lot of talk in the realms of psychology and behavioural genetics about whether or not certain people can be born "evil". Now that blank slate has been radically debunked across the board, it certainly is an interesting topic. I'd be surprised if it wasn't a spectrum like IQ where nurture might be a small to moderate part of it, and the rest is nature. From what I've read the science is obviously still out on the subject, but I have only read a couple of studies and a book (and a half) since I'm trying to focus on my own subjects. Maybe someone here that's more informed can weigh in? Any psychologists/therapists? Hell, prison guards would have an interesting perspective.

That said, be good parents is always good advice.

Does this sum up how you enlisted and deployments? Cause if it was for the money..............lol

California gun laws are a fubar. Zero silencer, suppressed, or fully auto, never, not even with the atf alphabet golden stamps.
No Ar-15s
No assault rifles. The defined law brings fluff like this to the market.
https://youtu.be/acjm1tQHaa0
No magazines over 10 rounds pistol.
No mags over 15 rounds rifle.
Shotgun has bs restrictions that idgaf.
Tried to have us turn in grandfathered mags over 15 rounds but the Supreme Court said it was unconstitutional without compensation. Or some fluff.
To purchase a firearm
1. Take a firearms safety test to get some state issue certificate.
2. Purchase a modern 1890 or newer firearm at a licensed ffl gun store.
3. State and federal background check.
4. 15 day hold at lic ffl.

They also passed background checks for ammo purchases. Who knows how the fluff they will pull that off.
Cal libtards also want the impossible micro stamp ID on the firing pin to stamp an ID on the spent casings. This proved an impossibility a few years ago. It's being finger fluffed around again.
This is a California babbling fool politician on guns: https://youtu.be/HI9tov6A2DI

https://youtu.be/iJmFEv6BHM0
Pelosi and barb boxer have some stupid to give also.

Oh and
Gun shows . All state and federal laws apply. A gun show isn't a black market for firearms. It's just a trade show of the same fluffs selling the same fluff.

https://proxy.mind-media.com/...3ArwkCRSs4Sxa%2Fgiphy.gif

These are real stats on gun crime;
There are 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, and this number is not disputed. U.S. population 324,059,091 as of Wednesday, June 22, 2016. Do the math: 0.000000925% of the population dies from gun related actions each year. Statistically speaking, this is insignificant! What is never told, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths, to put them in perspective as compared to other causes of death:
• 65% of those deaths are by suicide which would never be prevented by gun laws
• 15% are by law enforcement in the line of duty and justified
• 17% are through criminal activity, gang and drug related or mentally ill persons – gun violence
• 3% are accidental discharge deaths
So technically, "gun violence" is not 30,000 annually, but drops to 5,100. Still too many? Well, first, how are those deaths spanned across the nation?
• 480 homicides (9.4%) were in Chicago
• 344 homicides (6.7%) were in Baltimore
• 333 homicides (6.5%) were in Detroit
• 119 homicides (2.3%) were in Washington D.C. (a 54% increase over prior years)
So basically, 25% of all gun crime happens in just 4 cities. All 4 of those cities have strict gun laws, so it is not the lack of law that is the root cause.
This basically leaves 3,825 for the entire rest of the nation, or about 75 deaths per state. That is an average because some States have much higher rates than others. For example, California had 1,169 and Alabama had 1.

I bet the majority of the homicides are not with legally purchased firearms either.

there have always been guns and they are not a problem, it is the people what has changed with them? less morals and more video violence people have been desensitized to violence. people are also less religious than in the past, whether you believe or not there were good lessons and respect was taught.

This generation is hyper sensitised to violence farmer, bunch of pussies if I've ever known one. Religion isn't the cure for this, and I don't want to speculate on some of the real problems, but the real fact of the matter is that nothing at all has changed with guns. Homicides by guns have SWIFTLY gone down from the 90's in recent years. The only thing that's changed is to amount of PPC in the population (pussies per capita) that have the attention span of 4 year olds and get outraged by every single thing they see in the news.

Remember this is the generation that has been brought up fearing for their lives because of flu strains that they think are pandemic level. They all wear masks on the street because obviously everyone is going to die (when in reality like 3 people die). Imagine them living a century ago when people were dying in the streets? They couldn't do it. The boys are raised by single mothers with no father figures to tell them how to be men, and the next generation will be even worse because they'll be raised by either single mothers or men that cry at the sight of a spider. Rome got soft before it fell. Just saying.

The desensitised to violence thing doesn't work. Post-WW1 and WW2 generations were truly desensitised to violence, hell even many in the Vietnam generation were, yet they didn't act the way people that have never seen real violence in their lives are acting.

this is true

Ivan Australia is an island.... The united states has two neighbors with pretty much open borders.

Your point is mute.

The problem is not the weapons, it's the people. The population of the US has redefined mental illness so often that it almost is non-existent.

The guy was insane, and had money and resources to get his hands on the weapons, and was incited by the media to "perform" this act, hence the video camera, etc.

I can virtually guarantee that had somebody been legally armed and staying close by, the shooting would not have gone on as long as it did.

The thing is, you never know what people are thinking. Also, most people are saying the whole thing looks setup because he sent FA to his ex gf in the amount of 100k to the philippines. But its not out of the ordinary. Nobody can believe that anybody who can act out something as evil as this is capable of loving anyone enough too send them money to help them look after themselves. But only the source of evil us incapable of love. Everyone always wants to know why someone did what they did. As if in knowing why they will prevent it in the future. People always look for the signs of mental illness and look for a way to lock them up in the ward somewhere, instead of looking at the real issue, which is what and who created this monster. That is the real problem, other people and society creates people like this. They are the result of the inner monster that lives in all if us. When you take responsibility for what you created, the cure is not far behind. But lets be honest here, only God can end this madness.

Great points here indeed. You can never know what someone else is thinking without having had a lot of time to have observed the person, and even then, it can be sketchy.

Evil exists, and perhaps that is what caused the man to do the acts he involved himself with.

Some Hooker turned him down and he blew his stack, who knows, it's irrelevant anyway.

Blaming the gun is idiotic in the extreme. If that guy hadn't picked it up and used it, that gun would have slept peacefully in that room until check out time.

The lack of brass, the gun count, worries me, and the range and power of that weapon is well documented, has anyone analyzed the injuries suffered to determine the caliber of the rounds they were shot with?

I'm concerned that this could possible be a part of a psychological manipulation program being implemented by parties as yet unknown.

Americans of good character need to arm themselves, and arm themselves well. It's time for the Militia to stand up and protect our communities.

One of the last times I went to Las Vegas if not the very last, was when I won some jackpot at a slot machine. I was immediately asked to leave the hotel/casino by the staff after they told me the machine was busted and that's why it was making those hilarious sounds it makes when you hit jackpot, I refused to leave and they called Las Vegas police in to come escort me out. I told them fluff no I wasn't leaving, my uncle whispered in my ear that they looked like dirty cops and we should leave, so even though I was furious, I left with my uncle. Let's be honest here. I'm not perfect, but Las Vegas isn't called Sin City for nothing. In fact most of the things America makes its economy from are all things that are listed in the bible as being Evil and Sinful. But yet we call ourselves the greatest country on the planet. Evil is real and it exists, I have stood in it's presence and I absolutely will not hear that it was a figment of my imagination. The fight in this world is not against flesh and blood it is against the very real and elusive forces of darkness. God refers to Light as Good and Darkness as Evil, he is not referring to skin color. There is oppression everywhere, even in this country, it is in the very fiber of society. If you remember watching disney movies as a kid, they are not as G rated as people think, they always show the struggle between good and evil. Most have references of demon possessed people. I mean if you really sat back and analyzed it you would see an entirely different story, but in the end it always shows how good triumphs over evil as was Gods promise to all of his believers. Good will always prevail in the end, but while we are here on earth, it is our responsibility to stand up for eachother and defend ourselves. A good strong militia will always ensure fair and equitable treatment.